Independent Agents: The Trusted Choice

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Text, Wednesdays with Woodward (registered trademark) Webinar Series. Travelers Institute (registered trademark). Travelers. 

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JOAN WOODWARD: Hi. Good afternoon and thank you for joining us. I'm Joan Woodward, President of the Travelers Institute, and I'm really delighted to welcome you to our program this afternoon.

One quick note before we get started. I'd like to share our disclaimer about today's program.

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About Travelers Institute (registered trademark) Webinars. The Wednesdays with Woodward (registered trademark) educational webinar series is presented by the Travelers Institute, the public policy division of Travelers. This program is offered for informational and educational purposes only. You should consult with your financial, legal, insurance or other advisors about any practices suggested by this program. Please note that this session is being recorded and may be used as Travelers deems appropriate. 

Independent Agents: The Trusted Choice. Logos, MetroHartford Alliance, Travelers Institute (registered trademark), Travelers, Insurance Association of Connecticut, TrustedChoice.com, UConn School of Business MS in Financial Technology.

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OK, right off the top, I'd also like to thank our terrific partners for their engagement in today's program: the Master’s in FinTech Program at UConn, the MetroHartford Alliance, the Insurance Association of Connecticut, and TrustedChoice.com. Thank you, all, and welcome to your members and your networks. 

Today we're going to have a terrific discussion. But first, I want to drop in the chat a registration link for next week's program. On July 19, I'm going to sit down and have a fireside chat with former Secretary of Defense Mark Esper. So please be sure to register for that next Wednesday.

One. So today we're going to be discussing a topic that is near and dear to our hearts, the independent agent distribution channel and its importance in the insurance marketplace. With changing expectations from insureds and rapid technology advances in the insurance marketplace, the role of the independent insurance agent is at an exciting inflection point.

We're going to have an in-depth discussion about the value of the independent agent distribution channel and how the changing dynamics for agents and how they can really thrive in the years ahead. And I can't think of two people who are better suited to join me for this conversation today than our speakers.

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Speakers. Photos of Joan Woodward, EVP, Public Policy, President, Travelers Institute, Travelers. Chip Bacciocco, Chief Executive Officer, TrustedChoice.com. Sean Ramalho, Senior Vice President, Enterprise Distribution Management, Travelers. 

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Chip Bacciocco is the Chief Executive Officer of TrustedChoice.com, a digital marketing platform that works to connect insurance shoppers with independent insurance agents. As CEO, Chip drives the success of TrustedChoice.com and develops innovative technologies to enhance and extend the value of the independent agency channel in the increasingly virtual world. 

Before his time with TrustedChoice.com, Chip held multiple roles over a 30-year career in the insurance industry, including Chief Operations Officer at AON Private Risk Management and VP positions at Zywave and AJ Gallagher and Company.

Next is Sean Ramalho, my friend, and Senior Vice President of Enterprise Distribution Management at Travelers. In this role, he leads agent and broker initiatives, such as partner relationships, digital work intake and agency compensation, something you're all familiar with.

Prior to his role, he served Travelers as Field Vice President for the Metro New York/New Jersey region, having responsibility for 1.4 billion in written premium. So, Sean is an Executive Board Member with the Travelers Foundation, a Board Member of The Hole in the Wall Gang Foundation and serves as Travelers Executive Board Member and representative of TrustedChoice.com.

So Sean and Chip are going to kick off with some opening remarks. And then I'll come back, and we'll have a conversation. So drop your questions for Chip and Sean in that Q&A function. Don't wait till the very end. I'm going to try to get to as many as I can, as you all know.

So Chip, I'm going to turn the virtual floor over to you now. Welcome. 

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Never Compete Without an Advantage. Logo, TrustedChoice.com. 

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CHIP BACCIOCCO: Well, good afternoon, and thank you, Joan. And thank you, Sean, for being with me here today and getting us on this great event together. I'm excited to share some interesting things with all of you. As Joan said, the independent agency channel is something that both Sean and I are passionate about, and we have a lot that we want to share, a little bit in terms of its future and where it's going and our optimism, therefore. 

So I'm going to start off with, going to the next slide, with a prediction. 

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Quote, It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future. Yogi Berra. 

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And if you've ever heard this one, I think you'll appreciate it. Yogi Berra is one of my favorites. He says, it's tough to make predictions, especially about the future. And I totally agree with him. 

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A photo of a crowd behind a fence watching the DeLorean car and characters from the film “Back to the Future.” 

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In fact, going to the next here, we have-- this is one of my favorite movies in terms of the future and predicting. I hope everybody's seen it. It's “Back to the Future,” of course. They made some really interesting predictions in this movie in 1985. And it was about 2015. 

So for example, if you remember, they predicted we would ride hoverboards. And they predicted you'd have a car that could levitate on something, powered by something called Mr. Fusion that was powered by coffee grounds and old beer cans. Ties were double in fashion. Fax machines would be on our living room walls. They did not predict the internet. It's completely not in the movie at all. And they did not predict the mobile phone, which would have completely upended the entire plot.

So it is hard to predict the future. That's for sure. 

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Two men and a woman pose in suits with colored masks, capes, ties and gloves. Text, An easy prediction for the future, independent agents thrive in 2045. 

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But I'll make one prediction. Please show the fans my-- there we go. This one's easy. I will take bets on this. You're welcome to send me an email. I'm probably keep the amount reasonable. But I definitely predict that independent agents will thrive in 2045, 20-some years from now. And there's a number of reasons for that. 

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An hourglass. Text, Challenge: There is a perception that the I.A. channel is resistant to progress. 

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And what I want to do for the next few minutes, if we can go to the next slide, is I want to talk about sort of a set of juxtapositions. I want to talk about some common misperceptions, or just perceptions, about our industry and what we do. And then I want to kind of turn those on their side, and I want to show you what the actual situation is and the fact that we actually have a number of advantages. 

So, the first one is that there is a misperception that the IA channel is resistant to progress. And I think the work that a lot of the people on this call do every day, all of us do, and in particular, Sean and I, everything we work on would show that to be not the case.

I want to go next to the advantage.

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A man sits on a video call on a computer. Text, Advantage: The future is already here. 

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The advantage is that in reality, the future is already here. And I think all of you know that well, based on what you do every day. I always say this in my own podcast. We are living in the golden age of insurance innovation. And I truly believe that. 

For example, COVID just gave us a heck of a lesson in adaptation on the fly. No one would have predicted, obviously, that would have happened a couple years ago. It was an awesome challenge in our adaptability as an industry, and I would say we passed with flying colors. 

So if you think about today, what we do on Zoom. In fact, if you think about what we're doing right now, just a few, a decade ago this wouldn't have been possible at all. We would have had to try to do this in some kind of conference call situation or in a live setting in a room. 

Think about all of our agency management system software-- and for that matter, a lot of the policy management software of the carriers-- it's almost all cloud-based now. When I was younger in my career, we called something the holy grail. It was single entry multiple carrier interface. We have reached the tipping point on that, and now we're just trying to make them better.

API integrations are the standard today among technology vendors. And that's getting better and better. And artificial intelligence is coming at us very quickly. I was part of a group at an insurance accelerator in the Carolinas just a few weeks ago, which is part of one of the efforts of the Big “I” family, called 101 Weston Labs. And most of the new insuretechs that are coming through that program are incorporating artificial intelligence into their application.

So we're in the middle of an adaptive revolution within the IA channel. And I really push back on anyone that says we are resistant to change. No more than any other human being, I would say.

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Puzzle pieces. Text, Challenge: Independent Agents are a fractured industry. It's a very difficult business to scale. 

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I'm going to move on to the next topic. Another challenge, or perception of a challenge, is that the independent agency system is fractured, it's a fractured business, and it's very difficult to scale. 

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People work together on a whiteboard. Text, Advantage: I.A.-friendly Insurtech Technology is unleashing our strengths. 

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The advantage, in reality, is-- if we can go to the next one-- is that the latest insuretech developments are extremely IA-friendly. And those IA-friendly technologies are actually unleashing our strengths. 

So you know, there's an old saying that if you've met one independent insurance agent, you've met one independent insurance agent. And I do agree with that, in some sense. But that's also our strength. Our strength is the fact that the diversity of the solutions that we provide, the diversity of the talent that we have, the diversity of market access, the diversity of products, the diversity of advice, just all kinds of aspects about how we do things in the independent agency channel that really create great customer experiences, great partnerships with insurance companies and other vendors, and really is unbeatable.

And IA technology is increasingly empowering that and accelerating that. If you think back just a few years ago, the prediction was that direct-to-consumer insuretech was going to destroy independent agents. And if you look today, they're all adopting, how do we build the agent into the model. Because the agent is the best distribution platform that we have ever had, and probably will continue to have into the future. And I know Sean's going to share a little bit more about that when he talks.

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An illustration of the TrustedChoice.com logo pointing to agents throughout a city. How Claim-it (registered trademark) works. A woman says, I need insurance for my dance studio. An agent says, I can help you. 

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I want to highlight, if we can go to the next section here, I want to highlight something specifically that we're doing at TrustedChoice.com real quick that speaks to this scalability issue. So if you, make yourself an insurance consumer for a minute, and you're going to-- you're shopping for insurance and you watch one of those TV commercials and you call, I'll just say it, you call Jake, the guy with the red shirt and the khaki pants. 

If you call him, you will get to talk to him, or one of his clones. Because that's how that business, that side of the industry works. The captive agency side is very scalable. They have lots and lots of sales representatives, very sophisticated CRMs and phone systems. And if one person, one agent is busy, they will instantly get you to the next agent, where you'll get very, very similar service, which is a certain standard of service.

If you call an independent agent randomly, let's suppose you need insurance for your ice cream parlor in Cincinnati, and you try to find one. Someone says, oh, call the Jones Agency, they're here in town, and you call them. Your odds of actually talking to somebody that can help you in a matter of minutes is slim to none. Independent agents are in all these different locations.

The average small independent insurance agencies, 15, 20 people, somewhere in that, only two of them probably know how to help you with your situation. They're either helping another customer, they're in a meeting talking about, you know, next week's whatever strategy planning session, they're on vacation, they're taking their kids to school, whatever it is. We do not have that massive thousands of people in the same phone system scalability.

What we're doing at TrustedChoice.com to solve that is we're actually using exactly the same technology that Uber uses to bring sort of a crowdsourcing immediacy to what we can do for customers in the IA channel. So if this woman in my picture here is looking for insurance for her dance studio, she can broadcast that to insurance companies. She can also tell us directly at TrustedChoice.com, and we will broadcast out through something we call Claim-it, which is our newest technology.

And again, it's just like Uber. We'll broadcast that out to all the local independent insurance agents, and we'll ask them, which of you can help this woman with her dance studio? And it will include some details, right? She needs work comp. She's got six employees. She's been in business for five years. You know, she's blah, blah, blah. We'll give a number of parameters.

All of those insurance producers that we sent that notification to on their mobile phone, they all were qualified to do so. They were all in our system. We know they all have an appetite and an interest to help a dance studio customer. We know they have market appointments that would allow them to sell a product that would solve this woman's needs, et cetera, et cetera. We're making all of that transparent and immediate so that we can go to all those producers.

Many of them are not available right now. That's again that scalability problem that we're solving. They're helping an existing customer. They're down the hall. They're wherever. But if we can notify, just like when you want to go to the airport, Uber notifies 20 drivers. Who wants to take Chip to the airport? One of them is not currently driving someone. One of them is in the right part of town. One of them says, yeah, I'll take him to the airport. We're going to bring that same capability, that immediacy to the IA channel.

So, this is just one way that we're working-- and there are lots of technology companies very busy doing similar things in our space that are making independent agents more competitive and more skilled at handling customer service in the 21st century. So it's really exciting how we're becoming a scalable industry through this kind of technology.

I want to go to the next topic. 

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A robot sits at a computer wearing a headset. Text, Challenge: AI will finally replace the Independent Agent. 

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There's a common saying here that I hear independent agents being afraid a little bit of artificial intelligence. We've all seen Elon Musk and others talk about this. Personally, I am not worried. I'm going to go to the advantage here. 

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Women smile and shake hands. Text, Advantage: Insurance is a social contract. AI will actually empower Independent Agents. 

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Insurance, at the end of the day, is a social contract. It's something that we depend on literally for the success or failure of our families and our businesses. And I think in particular, if you think about a small businessperson ever wanting to actually depend on buying insurance from a bot, pushing a button or saying over the phone, buying coverage and feeling like-- and then being able to sleep after that, that that's it, they're done, that's good, there's just too much doubt that that's not concrete enough. And there's not enough confidence in the advice that's able to be provided behind that, and 100 other things. 

So for all those reasons, I'm not worried about the agent being replaced. In fact, I see the agent being empowered. I think AI is going to make independent agents have much better customer service, much better prospect engagement strategies, much better client retention tactics. It's going to-- it's going to vastly improve our current automation.

And in the longer run-- start thinking about this, I think this will happen-- it will supplement the agent's expertise. It will supplement the agent's ability to give consultative advice. It will, I think, for example, give you better sort of perspectives on which coverages to recommend, better perspectives on which markets to approach with a submission, better understanding of how the quotes should or shouldn't look, and better understanding of our compensation, frankly, and for the insurance companies, as well. So I think artificial intelligence will end up being an empowering technology, not a threatening technology.

I want to go to the next section here, please. This is my last section, and I'll turn it over to Sean.

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An empty office. Text, Challenge: The I.A. Channel is struggling to find new talent. 

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There's definitely a challenge that, are we struggling to find new talent? I talk to agents every day and I hear this every day. 

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Three young people smile leaning on a wall. Text, Advantage: Insurance is an awesome career. All we have to do is tell our story. 

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The advantage is-- want to go to the next section-- is that we all know that insurance is an awesome career. I say this all the time when I talk. I don't think me or my family has had a meal in 30 years that wasn't provided by the insurance industry and my ability to work here. And it's been a great challenge, and it's been very rewarding. And I think all of you probably could say the same thing. 

So what we have to do, though, is we have to tell our story. If you walk into the average high school, and you talk to the kids there and say, what do you want to be when you grow up kind of thing, very few of them will say, I want to be an insurance professional.

And it's just because we need to do a better job of explaining what we actually do every day, the fact that we help people, that it's a very noble profession, that we're often helping people in their time of their most need. It's complicated. It's challenging. It's problem-solving. It's relationship development. It's all kinds of very interesting things. It's also very rewarding in terms of general compensation, the ability to support a family.

So we have a great industry. We have great career opportunities. And we just need to do a better job, I think, of explaining it, telling our story, and we will win the people that we need at independent agencies going forward.

I think that's the end of what I wanted to say. I probably want to turn it over to Sean. I'll just always say my own little Yogi Berra adjective is never compete without an advantage. That's obviously a reference to our own products and what we do. But I think independent agents have amazing advantages, and we just need to make the best use of them.

So, I will turn it over to Sean.  

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Travelers Enterprise Distribution Management (EDM) 2023. 

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SEAN RAMALHO: Good afternoon. And thank you very much, Chip. 

Let me start by saying that I really don't have any predictions that I will share, because I, too, am not good at predicting the future. But I will say that I do agree with you, Chip. I think we have to do a really good job of telling our story. This is a great industry and certainly, the IA channel, I think, will be around in 2025 and beyond. It's super important. It's important to us. It's important to our economy. It's important to our industry. So we at least agree on that.

So anyway, as Joan mentioned, thanks for having me. And Chip, thanks for your partnership here today in this conversation. I'm Sean Ramalho, and I work in our Enterprise Distribution team. In this group, there's about 60 of us that work together. And our real and sole purpose is touching every and anything that really drives our agency experience, from compensation to new agency appointments to producer codes, all the things that are important to how an independent agent experiences what they do and how they feel with Travelers, we get involved in and we have some accountability for.

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Mission, create shareholder value. Purpose, our why, The Travelers Promise. Taking care of the people we're privileged to serve: our customers, our communities and each other. Inextricably linked. Call to action: Perform. Objective, Deliver industry-leading core R.O.E. over time. Transform with velocity. Innovation, vision and priorities. To be the undeniable choice for the customer and an indispensable partner for our agents and brokers. Extend our advantage in risk expertise. Provide great experiences. Improve productivity and efficiency. Achieved through business strategies. Business Insurance. One customer served by one team with relentless focus on the 3 C's: Customer solutions, convenient processes, competitive cost structure. Bond & Specialty Insurance. Profitable Growth. Expand our value proposition. Ensure seamless engagement with B.I. Drive productivity and efficiency. Personal Insurance. Deliver value in the eyes of the customer. Meet customers where they are. Give customers what they need. Serve customers how they want. Supported by superior engagement. Enterprise Distribution Management Strategy. Optimize BU and Agency engagement. Future-proof - Strategic Execution Office. Talent, Community, Event. Also achieved through: Claim, Technology and Operations, Finance and Actuarial, Reinsurance, Investments and other functional excellence. 

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Moving on, as I said before, very important to us is the independent agency platform, independent agency system. It's vital to Travelers' success. And what I put up here is really the Travelers North Star. You know, our mission is to continue to create shareholder value. Our purpose is really to take care of the people we're privileged to serve: our customers, our communities and each other. And our call to action and we all live by every day around perform and transform. 

And we could not achieve any of this, we could not be successful in any of these objectives without the IA distribution network. It's important to us. It's critical. It's vital. And we believe wholeheartedly in it. And I hope in today's conversation, you'll hear Chip and I talk about that. And that'll come through loud and clear, that we believe in this part of our industry, and we are here to support it. Next.

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Mission. The Enterprise Distribution Management Mission. Drive superior engagement and a differentiated experience for Travelers Brokers, Agents & Business partners. Support all Travelers business units to achieve their financial and operational goals. Engage with our agents and brokers in delivering the best products, services and technologies Travelers has to offer. Continually advance and maximize use of data, analytics and information processes to inform & reduce friction in our trading relationships. Develop our teams and support our communities in a culture of openness, learning, achievement and opportunity. Integrated Team Approach. Collaborate with business units in sales, underwriting, marketing, technology, operations and communications to form a coordinated, right-sized engagement team for our top distributors. Understand - globally and locally. Leverage our national and field footprints to ensure optimal engagement. Stay engaged with trends, goals, aspirations, changes. Guide our business and technology teams to deliver. Strategic Engagement. Connect integrated teams thru common platforms (Salesforce, DPM). Empower our teams to provide value-added service to distributors. Help develop platforms that do this in a seamless, integrated manner. Optimize M.I. tools and reports. Investing in Community & People. Lead regional employee development teams - RTLB, NTI, FDG. Lead & support community engagement. Interact. Connect with our technology teams, outside vendors, Insuretechs to optimize effective business trade. 

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So as I mentioned, in Enterprise Distribution we do have accountability for quite a bit. And all of it falls under the umbrella, no pun intended, the umbrella of making sure our agents and brokers have a fantastic experience with us. This slide highlights a lot of the areas that we focus on in Enterprise Distribution. 

But I will call your attention to the left side, the second box, where, as it pertains to the IA, engaging with our agents and brokers and delivering the best products, services and technology that Travelers has to offer, that's at the core, or one of the core items that we focus on in delivering that experience with our independent agent and brokers. It's really important to us. We know you give us the privilege of serving your customers, and it's important for us to deliver the best product, service, technology that we have to offer. Next.

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Enterprise Distribution Management. Understanding our Distribution Partners. Numbers as of year-end 2022. Written Premium 33.6 billion dollars. Number distributors 13,882. Producer Codes over 500,000. A pie chart titled Agency Segmentation shows 15.1 billion dollars, 45%, 21 Partners for 50 million- to 250-million-dollar premium. EDM Field Leadership engagement. Majority with Regional footprint. Multi-BU engagements. More local execution. Some acquisition aspirations. 12.8 billion dollars, 38%, 13,807 Partners for under 50-million-dollar premium. Regional/Local footprint. Field led engagement. More single-BU engagements. P.I. & Select focused. Some acquisition targets. And 5.6 billion dollars, 17%, 54 Partners for 250 million- to 1 billion-plus-dollar premium. National Distribution led. Majority with National footprint. Globally managed, locally executed. Multi-BU engagements. Majority are strategic acquirers. Travelers also engages with specialty relationships including payroll companies, Insuretechs, direct to consumer and emerging entrants. 

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A little bit about our universe. And as you know, just-- I should have said this at the beginning. My comments will be a little brief because I do want to get to the Q&A session with Joan. It's a little bit about our universe overall. Travelers as a whole, we write about 34 billion in written premium. And we transact that through about 14,000 different distributors. And we've got about 500,000 producer codes that we've assigned across those distribution partners. And those are the producer codes that we use to help deliver our products and services to your customers that you give us the privilege to serve. 

So certainly, a complex organization. It is large. It is at times difficult to navigate. But me and the team in Enterprise Distribution, we are here to help you navigate and to help making sure that you can get to every place within Travelers’ organization that you need to get to. So looking forward to the conversation today, excited about the Q&A. I think Chip and I will hopefully do a really fantastic job of responding to any questions and giving you some insights into how important this space is for us.

So Joan, back to you. 

JOAN WOODWARD: All right. Terrific. Well, Chip and Sean, that was just awesome. Loved hearing all the optimism. And I share that as well. I'm out in the country a lot, talking with our agent partners. And it's just really, it's refreshing. Because I think we are at an inflection point for the industry.

As everyone knows, I like to ask the audience a few questions. So if we can pull up those polling questions. We have a couple today to get a sense of our audience. So your first one, does your independent agency have a statement of values? Yes, no or what is a statement of values. 

So this came to us from Chip. He asked that we ask this question. And so I'm going to kind of-- all right, first of all, this is good news, everyone. The majority of you say you have a statement of values. Up until last week, when Chip said to us, can we include this question, I would have said, what is a statement of values? I know what a mission statement is.

So, 60% of you say you have this statement. Chip, what is a statement of values? And why is it important for an agent to have this?

CHIP BACCIOCCO: Yeah, sure. It goes to another thing. And I think I went a little long on my presentation, but it goes to something around culture. And I'm a big believer in the power of culture. Culture is, in fact, the power of shared values. That's one of the definitions of what it is. 

And so if you know what you're about-- and when I say values, I mean like just trying to describe how you support each other. Are we a team? Do we aspire to excellence? Do we aspire to help our customers? It's those kinds of-- it's not external values. It's about who you guys are.

And then hopefully, my best advice I can give to agencies to hone that over time is to make sure that every personal review, and that you talk about it as a company, but everyone's personal review is sort of, do you reflect the values that we've said we were about? If you say that we're about teamwork and not putting yourself ahead of others, then let's talk about that in every personal review. If you say you're about sacrifice for the customer, let's talk about that.

And whatever those are, and you come up with your own. You know, there's nothing wrong with saying, revenue growth is a big value of ours. That's perfect. Just make sure it's, I think, reflected in what you do and that you try to measure whether you're living up to it.

JOAN WOODWARD: Great. Thank you. All right.

Next question. This is your aspirational elevator pitch. OK, so does your agency have a five- or 10-year aspirational elevator pitch? So, you get in the elevator with Alan Schnitzer at a big insurance conference. And what is your pitch about your uniqueness over the next five to 10 years? So, I think this is making a lot of people think. I like these questions, Chip. Thank you for suggesting them.

So, about a third of us, yes, have one. A third of us do not. And of course, another third of us have no idea what you're talking about. So again, I'm going to go to Sean in a second, but Chip first, does this surprise you that only one-third of them have that elevator pitch?

CHIP BACCIOCCO: No, it doesn't surprise me. But I would encourage it. And here's why. And it should be really short, like 15 words, 20 words. It's more about, again, getting all of your team on the same page. So the more that you have a defined-- and specialization, frankly, is my easiest recommendation. So we want to be the best transportation broker in the Northeast in the next five years. Whatever it is, something really simple, some specialization. We're going to be really good at this one thing. We're going to be known for it over this time frame. Focus on that.

The agents that just say, we're an insurance agency, you know, no disrespect to you, but you're putting yourself, I think, at a disadvantage to be a total generalist. Have a little bit of a vision, carve a space for yourself in the marketplace, and make sure everybody knows how to say that in 15 words or less.

JOAN WOODWARD: OK. Sean, do you agree with that? Do you think specialization is the way to go with your elevator pitch? Or do you want to be kind of everything to everybody? What is the best pitch you heard, Sean?

SEAN RAMALHO: I mean, Joan, I interact a lot with a lot of our independent agents across the country. And I probably would suggest that most of them aren't sure what the elevator pitch is and should be. Because I can tell you, when I walk into an agent's office and I've seen them interact with customers, they all have a pitch of why they can be better-- providing a better product and service for that customer. And I think they all do it successfully. That's why they're in business.

So I would say that most of our independent agents, they do have an elevator pitch. They may not realize it actually is an elevator pitch, but they do have something that differentiates them from someone else as to why a customer should utilize them as an insurance broker.

JOAN WOODWARD: OK. But needless to say, or regardless of saying, everyone should have this, right? And every employee should be able to articulate what this is. So first, your statement of values, what you're all about and your culture. Second, we learned, have that elevator pitch, because again, there's a lot of agents out there that are in the same town or in the same area and you want to differentiate yourself.

Next question. This is fun. More fun we're going to have. How many days a week are you back in the office? So single choice here. Let me also say, how many days a week are you supposed to be back in the office, right? Not just that you physically are, but what have your bosses told you how many days they want you in that chair? 

OK, this is going to be really interesting. We're going to spend a minute on this one, because this has to do with talent acquisition, retention, et cetera.

All right. I'm going to pull the plug on our poll here. I think everyone has a minute to respond. So about 35%, or one-third of us, are back fully in the office five days a week. OK, another 5% are four days. So I'm going to add those two numbers and say 40% of us are basically back in the office four or five days a week.

We have a third of employees say the three days a week, which is what Travelers has currently. And then a couple days a week, fully remote is now 20%. Really would have been interesting if we asked this question pre-pandemic that are fully remote. So that 20% number I'm sure was not that high three years ago.

So Sean, first I'm going to go to you on this, because we have a stake in the ground at Travelers, for the most part. I know we have fully remote people. I know we have fully in the office people. But for the most part, it's a bit of a hybrid. I know you personally are on the road a lot, as a lot of agents are on the road as well. Do you think this is here to stay? Do you think we're headed back more towards the five days a week, like 40% of our audience is here?

SEAN RAMALHO: Yeah, I'm actually surprised to see the five days a week number so high. But I think it's here to stay. I think we are at a place where there's going to be a lot of consideration given to what works for your business, what works for your talent, what works for your customer needs.

I think to your comment, Travelers has a three-day policy for us to be in the office and be visible amongst each other. And that's important because it drives culture. There are so many intangibles that rely on that in-person presence that you can't do from a remote setting.

But I think we are at a point in time in the work environment where, as an employer, you're going to have to think about what works best for your business, your customers and talent and how you can successfully kind of grow your businesses going forward.

JOAN WOODWARD: All right. And Chip, I want to ask you because you see across the whole place, in terms of the independent agents and their employees. Has this been helpful? Not that the pandemic was helpful for anyone, but the sheer mass and the volume of how we switch doing hybrid work, the profitability of the business, the time saving, people commuting, your ability to attract younger people, who really love the hybrid or the remote options. What are your thoughts kind of pre-pandemic versus where we sit today on these results?

CHIP BACCIOCCO: Well, I agree with everything Sean said. But Joan, you bring up good points. I believe we're actually stronger as a result. None of us would have chosen the path, but we are stronger as a result. We learned a lot. We added a lot of capabilities. We added a lot of componentization.

And again, I said it before, independent agents, if you've met one, you've met one. So there's so many different kinds of independent agencies in terms of what their operational plant is. For some agencies, Sean's right, they'll be better off if they can find ways to encourage people to come back together in the office and have face-to-face interactions with each other and, of course, with customers, especially those that need face-to-face interactions with customers.

For some, I think they'll be just fine with a very remote presence and a lot of collaboration online. I think online collaboration tools have a long way to go. I think they will get better and better. But we're headed, in my opinion, towards some kind of hybrid that will be worked out over time, one agency at a time, one insurance company at a time.

JOAN WOODWARD: OK. Great. Now I'm going to get into just a bunch of the Q&A. And one of the things we've heard over the years-- so thank you all for participating in our polls. And let us know in our survey if you like doing these polls. We could do a couple more questions for each webinar. Take our survey and let us know.

So back to the notion of when we had the whole emergence of direct-to-consumer many decades ago, D2C, the rise of the internet, everyone can get insurance online in a personal lines way. But obviously, business insurance is more difficult to do direct-to-consumer, although there is some small business ones that are already obviously flourishing out there. 

But why is it, do you think, that the independent agent channel remains so strong? And in fact, it's growing, right? In the last couple of years, we've had more agencies start than go out of business or merge. And I just found that fascinating. What are your thoughts here, Chip, on the success? And why are you so optimistic about the growth of this channel?

CHIP BACCIOCCO: It's fundamentally a better product. I mean, it really comes down to that. If the direct-to-consumer was a better product, we would rightfully be-- need to be worried. And I'm not saying we should rest on our laurels, because with artificial intelligence things and technology, it's going to continue to move.

But as of today, the independent agent is a better product. It's a better reassurance that you're protected. It's better advice. It's better access to more products. It's better support. It's someone to hold accountable. It's a whole bunch of things that probably most of the people on this call all know.

Yeah, it's cool to talk about a website that has a fun mascot, and you can click some buttons and the customer does all their own work. And that sounds like a great business model until the customer says, well, I don't really feel safe here, I don't really feel like-- this isn't doing it for me.

So as long as insurance is such a high-stakes product, and it really is a high-stakes product, I think a human element and being able to hold someone accountable and knowing, I trust Mary, Mary sold me that policy, she's my insurance agent. Anything goes wrong, I'm going to Mary. As long as we have that as a foundation, all the good stuff we can build on top of that, I'm very optimistic.

JOAN WOODWARD: Great. Sean, you've been in this role in Enterprise Distribution Management for a couple of years now. But obviously, you've been in the industry many decades. What surprised you when you took on the role of Enterprise Distribution Management? And you've been doing this for a very long time, but the bond we have, we, Travelers, have with our independent channel is just so strong. In fact, when I came to Travelers, I was really just taken aback by that. Talk to us about what you've kind of learned in the last couple of years.

SEAN RAMALHO: So, I think what I've learned-- so not to bore you with my background, but most of my insurance career has been in the Northeast. So, I kind of grew up in the New York, New Jersey area. And I had a lot of familiarity with the agency plant, independent agency plant in that territory.

And I think what surprised me is something that-- I'll steal a line from Chip, if you've met one independent agent, you've met one-- is as I got a chance to now travel across the country, it was interesting to really, and surprising at the same time, to see how they were all different. It's a business that you're almost in some ways distributing the same product. It's a product to protect the assets of those that own it.

But the way of going to business, their models, what was important to them, how they engaged in either seeking business or engaging with carrier relationships were so vastly different that was-- I was surprised that in this one space of insurance and an independent agency platform or system, there were so many different business models. And I think that was really surprising to me. Because again, growing up in the Northeast, there's a lot of similarities by agents in that geography. But if you go out in the middle of the country or West Coast, the business models are different.

But I will add, the one thing that continues to be-- and you didn't ask this question, but I'll throw it in there. The surprising similarity is there has and continues to be a real driver of relationships. It still continues to be a relationship-driven business. And that wasn't just in the New York, New Jersey area. That need and the importance of that relationship seemed to permeate across all of the geographies across the entire country in every territory that I traveled.

So that was, there was some dissimilar items about how they went to market and how they showed up, but then the one thing that remained really, really in common was the importance of having a strong relationship.

JOAN WOODWARD: Yeah. And I've seen it too. And also, it just feels so good. It feels so good to have those personal connections and the network that you build growing your career in the insurance industry. I think that's really a fun part of how we operate with our independent agents.

OK, so let's talk about the future. We talked a bit about kind of how we got here, all living through the pandemic, and where we're kind of today. I want to talk about the next five years for the independent agent channel. And we touched on this a little bit with regard to AI.

So we had a-- for those of you listening and didn't join our webinar about a month ago, we had a big webinar on ChatGPT and how it could potentially affect, and affect and effect, the insurance industry and specifically the agent channel. And so that ChatGPT AI webinar is on our website, travelersinstitute.org. If you haven't seen it, I urge you to go back and look at it. We had our chief data scientist and our chief engineer talking about the applications for AI in the insurance industry.

But Sean, I'm going to get you in a sec. But Chip, what do you think this really means for us? Because a lot of people are worried about their jobs, first of all. Do you think it's going to replace people, or do you think those people’s-- in those roles now will just direct what the AI should be thinking? Because it's a fluid machine. It can learn as it goes, machine learning and AI, as we all know. What does this really mean for, say, a small independent insurance agent that's not part of a huge operation? Marsh, Aon, Gallagher, all the bigger ones, what does this mean maybe for a more mom and pop?

CHIP BACCIOCCO: As I said in my comments a little earlier, it will be an empowering technology. I do not see sort of robotic agents. I had that picture of a robotic agent sort of stepping in and just replacing us.

In fact, I also mentioned, I've been to some accelerators, some insuretech accelerator events recently. And all of these new tools are incorporating AI into their tool. And I've seen the demos and I know what they do.

So they just help the agent be-- all the stuff you wish you had five hours to do that you could remember forever, that you could cross reference what you learned here versus what you learned in some other account you did six years ago one morning-- it pulls all that together in a way that we just don't have the capacity in our brains to do. It remembers perfectly. It draws much better conclusions. It finds much more interesting patterns than we could find on our own. And it gives us that context in the conversation that we're having with our customer.

So that's how I think everybody should see it. All these things are just going to make the agents much, much smarter. Small agents too. When you pull up a tool about a customer, for example-- I'll just give you a simple example. You pull up in your CRM in the future, it's going to tell you things like the likelihood that you don't know it, but this customer probably needs this coverage or that coverage.

So ask them about it. Or the likelihood that they may already be shopping, just based on other patterns. Or the likelihood that they need this reassurance or that reassurance. Whatever it is, it's going to sort of be a half a step ahead of you and giving you, the agent, advice about what you should do to keep that customer, improve that relationship and win the next account.

JOAN WOODWARD: OK. Thank you for that. Sean, any thoughts there? I do want to get into exactly some of the tools. Do you want to comment on the next five years in AI first?

SEAN RAMALHO: Yeah, you know what? I would like to comment. Because I do agree with what Chip has said. I see it as really empowering the agent and helping making the transaction a little bit easier. But the thing that I also am really excited about, Joan and Chip, is I think AI has the power to level the playing field for the availability and the accuracy of information.

I think the way I try to describe it sometimes is we all know we have three major credit rating bureaus in the country that rates us as individuals. And generally, they all have our scores somewhat similar. Without the standardization or kind of an industry standard for information, all of our agents and our risks aren't level. So the information isn't the same across, and I think AI has the ability to create a level playing field, a common view of exposures, of hazards, of risks of an insurance customer. And I think it really will enhance the services that can be provided by an independent agent.

CHIP BACCIOCCO: I-- if I can just add on. I totally agree with Sean on that. A little bit like YouTube made anybody that wants to be sort of a publisher, right, you could start your own TV channel, sort of, kind of. Maybe most of us shouldn't do that. But anyway, it's empowering technology. So it's going to enable smaller organizations to have the same power that previously was only available to very large institutions that have massive computing capabilities and resources. So I totally agree with him. It's going to be a field leveler for sure.

JOAN WOODWARD: Great. That's really great to hear.

Sean, I want to talk to you about part of your job is really strengthening our relationships with our independent agents. And I know you have some new tools and solutions you're working on to support that channel. Can you give us a couple examples maybe of some of the more recent tools we've implemented to support?

SEAN RAMALHO: So first, Joan, it's evident here that we support the IA with our partnership with Trusted Choice. We also partner with other organizations, such as the Big "I," PIA, et cetera. I know I'm forgetting a few, so I apologize. But we lean in heavy to those organizations that support and are there for the independent agent. We provide support, partnership, resources, et cetera, which, in turn, gets delivered down to the IA. 

From a support standpoint, for all of the independent agents that are listening today, one of the things that I would-- a bit of an infomercial for us, we are heavily involved in partnering with our agents and brokers around technology, deployment of technology, building of technology, sharing of data, et cetera, et cetera.

And I would encourage anyone listening to today's webinar to reach out to me. We have a fantastic, what we call an innovation lab. I don't think enough of our independent agent partners take advantage of it. It's an opportunity for them to come into the Travelers, spend some time with us, listen to what we're doing from a technology standpoint, share their story with us, and get their feedback as we think about implementing technology.

The other thing that I think we do a lot of, and probably can do more of, is partnering. And I know we'll probably get to this in a second set of questions is partnering with our independent agents around talent and support of talent. We have our producer training school that we will take young new hires into an agent's office, and we will bring them into the Travelers. We will teach them the insurance selling transaction. We'll provide them with that resource, giving that agent the opportunity to put that individual back on the street and go out and sell on their behalf.

So there are a host of things that we do to support the IA channel. And I would encourage all of our partners to really connect with me and others on my team to take advantage of those resources.

JOAN WOODWARD: So Sean, when you said the producer school, so you actually go into an agency and say, give us your couple of new hires or your top talent, and then we immerse them in kind of what Travelers does and how the transaction goes for, what is that, a week program? Is it a day long? Is it virtual? How would someone on the call today know how to get in touch with a producer school potential group?

SEAN RAMALHO: So for any one of our independent agents listening to today's webinar, you can reach out to your local field office contacts, and they will direct you to the right individuals. But to answer your question, Joan, it's a two-week program. It initially was all in person. COVID and the pandemic has kind of changed that a bit. So we have some sessions, two sessions that I think are in person and two sessions that are virtual for the calendar year 2023.

We will bring a cohort of agents, new hires, folks who are looking to be producers, who are looking to be salespeople. We bring them in. We immerse them into the insurance product, the insurance transaction. A little bit biased, because we're kind of Travelerizing those individuals. And we also immerse them in sales tactics and techniques to go out and be successful producers.

And again, we understand that that's a resource that maybe a lot of our smaller agents and brokers cannot provide on their own. So we offer that as a service. There's no cost to the agent. It's just getting their people to maybe be away from home, if it's an in-person class, for a few days at a time. If it's virtual, I guess we don't have that as an issue.

But that's an important-- we've gotten such great feedback. We've had that in place for a number of years. We paused it in the pandemic, but we found a way to bring it back. And we continue to get rave reviews. And I encourage all of our independent agents to take advantage of that resource.

JOAN WOODWARD: Wonderful. Thank you for that.

All right. Let's go into the other part of training and development and recruiting, which is really talent. And there's a war on talent. The unemployment rate is down to 3.5%. It's basically full employment in this country. And we know a lot of people have left their jobs. Again, the pandemic has really had a lot of people rethinking their whole lives. So how do we go about this?

I want to talk about a couple topics within talent management and how to attract new talent. We have Gen Z. And how do you attract Gen Z or millennials? We have college and university recruiting. And how do we go about that? We have succession planning and providing that next generation a roadmap. I think according to the Big "I”'s most recent university study, the average age of an agency principal now is 54 years old, with 17% of those being 66 years of age and older.

And so we have an aging of the population in general. All of us baby boomers-- I'm in the last year of the baby boom-- are getting older, maybe starting to retire or retired. How do we attract that young talent? And, again, the mindset of a younger person is different than, obviously, us with gray hair.

Chip, what is the Trusted Choice doing to help in this category?

CHIP BACCIOCCO: Sure. Yeah. And by the way, when you read those stats, I just hear the word opportunity, right? I just, that's like, that's actually a big opportunity for us and for the people that we will be bringing into our industry.

So Trusted Choice itself is not directly engaged in this, but we are engaged, in a larger sense, through the Big "I" family. So of course, Trusted Choice and TrustedChoice.com are part of the Big "I" family. The Big "I" has a program called Invest, which has really been making great strides lately. And it's focused primarily, what you were talking about before, about bringing in truly young people, Gen Z, I guess, high school and college age.

And what's great about it, and what I encourage all the agents that are on the call listening, is it puts you personally involved in starting to build sort of a farm system for yourself. You can volunteer to be sort of a mentor-- or a mentor, nothing sort of about it-- at a high school, at a college, whatever. The Big "I" will help you identify where those-- where those are in your state, which colleges or high schools are participating.

You can even suggest one. You can say, hey, I’ve got-- I know some people at this school. I’ve got-- I would love to be over there. Can you give me some way? The Big "I" will help you get in there and get a mentorship program started. The school doesn't even have to necessarily have a program in risk management. Anything in sort of the-- it could be a two-year school. It could be a four-year school. Again, it could be a high school.

They have a lot of different flavors of this program. And it brings this recruitment and this storytelling-- that's how I prefer to think of it-- is brings this storytelling to the local level. It gets agents directly involved, where they get to meet these next generation people. And hopefully-- by the way, that's how I got into this business, through a summer internship when I was in college-- bring a real relationship, as Sean was talking about, creates interesting possibilities. And that's, I think, the key to how we bring in new talent.

JOAN WOODWARD: Thank you for that. And I know that a number of universities have risk management programs. So there's the University of South Carolina. Bob Hartwig runs that risk management program. St. John's University. I'm going to miss some university. The University of Texas at Denton, UNT, I believe it's called, and a couple others out there.

How does someone go about tapping those young people for internships? So that's a question that I get a lot of calls from risk management professors saying, can we get our interns into your companies? How do you think the best way, if you're a mom and pop, for example, to go about that? And Sean, feel free to jump in here as well.

CHIP BACCIOCCO: I will turn that over to Sean. I think he probably-- I think he thinks more and has a better sense about the university and the larger scale, especially those with risk management programs. I've been more focused, frankly, on people that want to get into the career in general, not necessarily at that level of sophistication.

SEAN RAMALHO: Yeah. You know, so Joan, what we have been doing is just being more deliberate about tapping into those schools' programs and also creating a path for their students from beginning to end, so from first-year internship through employment. So we're being more deliberate in that.

You know, I would be remiss if I didn't mention our foundational program, the Travelers EDGE, which has been tremendously successful in helping us find talent to come into the industry. But where I give the industry a whole, carriers and independent agents together, where give us a really failing grade is I think we have to be better at working together. So there are some locations, some universities where Travelers doesn't have a presence. We should be able to tap into those universities and build that relationship but be able to hand off that talent or introduce that talent to an independent agent.

JOAN WOODWARD: Yes.

SEAN RAMALHO: Insurance is not just about being in the underwriting space. There is an opportunity for folks who may want to be on the sales side of it in the independent agency system. So I think there is opportunity for us to really work together more proactively to hand and to be better promoters. I think Chip talked about that in the beginning, about being a better voice for the industry as it pertains to talent.

Because there is a drain, and it's at the IA level, it's at the carrier level and it's across all of our competitors. We're all sharing that as a unique challenge, or a challenge that we all have in common. So I think we just have to be better at working together.

JOAN WOODWARD: OK. Great. I'm going to get to audience questions. And the one question that we got a lot is, I mentioned our webinar we had on AI and ChatGPT. So our team is going to put in the chat feature right now that link to the replay on our AI webinar. So that's in the chat feature for all of you who are asking that question.

So Sean, this question is coming in from Claudia McClain. Claudia, I believe, in Seattle, right? Is producer school only for commercial lines focused or do you have sales training programs for personal lines as well? And also, Shera Allahyari has asked the same question. Is it all lines or mostly commercial?

SEAN RAMALHO: It's all lines with a heavy slant on commercial. There is a training program in the PI, and it's a little different. I don't have the details on that. PI being personal lines. I apologize. But the producer school I was referencing is heavily weighted towards commercial lines.

JOAN WOODWARD: OK, great.

Chip, this one's going to be for you. It's from Leon Binstock. Does Trusted Choice bring access to any carriers? If not, what are the main advantages of joining? So here's your elevator pitch time, Chip. Pitch Leon as to why he should join Trusted Choice.

CHIP BACCIOCCO: Yes. So yes, Trusted Choice does, in the bigger sense-- I don't want to get into all the little, tiny departments we have and so forth. But yes, there's something called Big "I" Markets. If you join the Big "I" as a member, you absolutely can get access to additional markets. I don't have that list handy off the top of my head, but that's definitely one reason to be part of the Trusted Choice family.

TrustedChoice.com, what I would say is we will help you to meet the risks online that you most want to write. We try to get the right risk placed with the right agent at the right time and then accessing the right insurance company, if you're interested in growing.

Our growth, as Sean knows, because he's one of my bosses on our board, the growth rate that we have in inbound opportunities coming to TrustedChoice.com that are specifically looking for a local independent insurance agent to help them, and we can tell you all about them, each one is phenomenal. The growth's amazing. And we are signing up people left and right. So please sign up.

JOAN WOODWARD: Sounds good. OK.

Victor Lange says he's very surprised and intrigued by the number of people who are in the office five days a week, on the earlier poll. Am I able to share how many people answered the poll? We had over 1,000 people answer that poll. And I'm going to say about 70% of them were agents or brokers. So that is a good chunk of people that are back in the office five days a week.

On to another question. Let's see. How do you see-- this is from [INAUDIBLE]. How do you see the future of the small mom and pop independent agent? Seems that most are being purchased by larger brokers. Obviously, there's lots we didn't even talk about M&A. We could have a whole webinar on that. But what do you think the small mom and pop future is here? Chip, I'm going to go to you. 

CHIP BACCIOCCO: Sure. You know, I don't-- I know we use that phrase-- I don't think of them anymore as mom and pop. I think of them as real entrepreneurs. I love going to conferences and seeing the new agencies that are emerging. And they tend not to be mom and pop. I know that might be kind of a rough visualization.

They tend to be a group of young people that have an amazing idea, that are great salespeople, that think they know how to differentiate themselves, that think always-- this is a common practice-- always think they can leverage technology for their advantage. They always see something that they think other people don't see. They see an edge. They see an advantage. And they are looking to create a business for themselves, their friends, their family that will be really successful.

So I think it's extremely bright. As I said, the strength of what we do is the diversification, the specialization of the services we provide. And it's a great opportunity to form a new business, just like it always has been.

JOAN WOODWARD: Sean?

SEAN RAMALHO: Joan, I think the sale of many of the smaller agencies goes right back to the talent issue that we have in the industry. And I think when you aren't bringing fresh talent in, and you aren't bringing in the talent that can be, or perpetuation, part of your perpetuation strategy, then the only solution becomes your exit strategy is to sell. So I think if we can solve the talent issue, we can get more people into the business, I think we'll start to see a decrease in the amount of smaller agencies that only see the endgame as a sale. 

JOAN WOODWARD: OK. Thank you.

CHIP BACCIOCCO: And I do agree. I didn't mean to-- I certainly don't disagree at all with Sean. I wanted to go more toward the, where are the new agencies coming from? He's right, though. For those that are, let's just say, older, because in your stats, Joan, you mentioned there's an older generation that is often the agency principal, he's right. If they want to continue in that footprint, under that business name and so forth and continue that vision, they need that next generation of talent, and they need to find a way to recruit it.

But I'm just talking about, there's also brand-new agencies just emerging out of the earth. And that's an exciting trend that I like to see as well.

JOAN WOODWARD: Right. I've seen a number of the younger folks think they have an edge, as you say, the advantage, and it's a really exciting place to be, some of the smaller agencies. Again, the mom and pop name, I don't know how that became such a thing in our industry, but it is a thing, as you all know.

All right. I'm going to go to another question. Fay Feeney. Hi, Fay, out there. Fay sits on a number of boards. She's asking, what are you seeing agents doing to improve the customer experience around assessing coverages that are meeting changing exposures, such as cybersecurity, fires, clearly, California, Colorado, landslides?

I mean, the agents are trying to improve this customer experience. But customers don't understand the regulatory environment in which we operate. We have 50 regulators, obviously, in the U.S. And how do we, Sean, give our agents more tools to help their customer challenges in some of these cyber, wildfire, et cetera?

SEAN RAMALHO: You know, Joan, I am, and I'll probably let Chip expand more on this, because he probably has more insight, I am at a point where it's so important for our independent agents to become less about the commodity and more about the specialty. And really, they have to be a trusted adviser.

And as the person that asked the question, there's so many challenges that are facing us in our society that insurance is a solution for. And our independent agents and brokers has to be on that-- they have to be in the Rolodex. You know, I'm dating myself by saying Rolodex. But they have to be at the same level as an attorney or a doc. And I mean that in the most complimentary way.

Because it's not just about selling the insurance product, but it's about educating our insureds and their customers about the exposures that they may not even be thinking about. And you mentioned cyber, which, or wildfires or landslides. And I think that's going to be the turning point in our in the independent agency landscape, where less about the product and more about the expertise and services that are offered.

CHIP BACCIOCCO: That's well said. I'll just add, this has been a challenge since I've been in the business. I remember when I joined that something called EPLI was kind of a new coverage. And as producers, as account executives, we were kind of afraid to talk about it, because we didn't know enough about it, didn't understand it and didn't want to look dumb. And I think that's always the case, right, is how do you make sure, to Sean's point, how do you make sure you're being that trusted adviser, when the reality is, of course, you don't know everything, right? You're trying to do the best you can with what you do know.

Obviously, tapping into more education, relationships with other brokers, having good references, and so forth. But I will, last little point is, a lot of the technology that, as I said, is coming out that I'm seeing come, which is IA friendly, IA empowering does include advice about, you know what, you should be suggesting cyber for this person, you should be suggesting flood. Even though they don't live in a flood plain, there's a reason why. Just suggest it. They'll want to buy it. They'll feel better about it.

So it's coming. It's going to get easier and easier.

JOAN WOODWARD: OK. A quick question here. We'll do a rapid fire. Taylor Gallagher asking you, Chip, how do we learn more, become part of the "Claim-it" from Trusted Choice, quote unquote.

CHIP BACCIOCCO: Wow, that's the best question of the day. You go to TrustedChoice.com. At the top right, there's a link that says Join Our Network. I want you to click on that and go to the page about Claim-it and being an Advantage Agency. And one of my associates will be calling you and walk you through it.

There's lots of different-- I can't just give you the easy answer. There's different flavors. You're going to want to pick what you want that fits your agency and what you're trying to do, but…

JOAN WOODWARD: OK, we will get back to-- we will follow up. My team will follow up. We'll connect you to both.

Listen, guys. This has flown by. Our hour has completely flown by. Please promise me you'll come back on our session, and we'll ask more of these questions we got in today. But I know you're both available to anyone out there who's interested in learning more about anything we're working on together. And the one promise I think Sean and I'll have from Travelers is, we are innovation machines here. And so if there's something new to innovate on, we will do it and do it well.

So Sean, Chip, any last words before we let you go?

CHIP BACCIOCCO: I just want to--

SEAN RAMALHO: Thank you for inviting me.

CHIP BACCIOCCO: Sean, good to see you here. I'll see you soon, I'm sure, in real life.

SEAN RAMALHO: Yes, thank you to both of you. Great conversation, great partnership. And thanks for everyone who participated.

JOAN WOODWARD: Absolutely. Thank you all again for coming on. And I just want to remind my viewers, please take our survey. We read every comment and we try to respond. So if you want to have a session on something, or a speaker you'd like me to have on, please take our survey and let us know.

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And also, please don't forget, next Wednesday, July 19, 1:00, right back here, I'm going to be interviewing actually a friend of mine. Former Secretary of Defense Mark Esper and I have known each other for a number of decades. And so he's agreed to come on. We're giving away his book. So if you haven't requested a copy of his latest book, please do that in the registration link, which is in the chat. 

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Thank you all for joining me. And then we are going to take August off. We're going to hit the pause button, just to give you a heads up. And we have a jam-packed fall lineup for everyone this fall. It's going to be amazing. 

So, thank you all. Have a wonderful afternoon.

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