Discovering Common Purpose: Veterans and Military Families on the Rewards of Civic Engagement

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This content is brought to you by Travelers. Text, CITIZEN TRAVELERS AT THE TRAVELERS INSTITUTE, A SERIES ON CIVIC ENGAGEMENT. Discovering Common Purpose: Veterans and Military Families on the Rewards of Civic Engagement. Logos for Citizen Travelers, We the Veterans and Military Families, Travelers Institute (registered trademark) and Travelers appear. Janice Brunner speaks in an office, from a labeled video call tile in the upper right of the slide. 

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JANICE BRUNNER: Good afternoon and thank you for joining us. I'm Janice Brunner, Group General Counsel and Head of Civic Engagement for Travelers. And I'm happy to welcome you to our special Citizen Travelers at the Travelers Institute program this afternoon.

Citizen Travelers is our aggressively nonpartisan initiative to empower Travelers employees to take part in the civic life of their communities. Underpinning all of the work that we do every day is a representative democracy with resilient public institutions and an economic system that is governed by the rule of law. These are important factors for any business and ones that we cannot take for granted.

Democracy depends on informed and engaged citizens. And it's with this in mind that we're pleased to host these series of programs examining civic engagement. We hope you will continue to join us throughout the year and hear how we as business leaders can preserve and strengthen our democratic systems.

Before we begin, I'd like to share a disclaimer about today's program.

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Text, About Today's Webinar. This webinar is supported by Citizen Travelers, the civic engagement initiative of The Travelers Indemnity Co., for informational and educational purposes only. The non-partisan views expressed by the speakers and/or We the Veterans and Military Families and its employees are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views of Travelers or any of its employees. Travelers disclaims responsibility for any publication or statement by any of the speakers and/or We the Veterans and Military Families. Please note that this session is being recorded and may be used as Travelers deems appropriate. 

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I'd also like you to-- I'd also like to invite you to submit questions now and throughout the program. Drop your question in the Q&A feature at the bottom of your screen. 

With that, I'm thrilled to be joined today by two amazing guests. 

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Headshots of the three guests appear above their names and titles. Janice smiles in a blazer in her photo. Ellen Gustafson has side-swept hair in her black and white photo, and Cory Johnson wears a blue suit jacket in his photo. Text, Speakers. Janice Brunner, Group General Counsel and Head of Civic Engagement, Travelers. Ellen Gustafson, Executive Director and Co-Founder, We the Veterans and Military Families. Cory Johnson, U.S. Army Veteran, Co-Chair of the Military/Veterans and Allies Diversity Network, School Board Chairperson, Travelers. 

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Ellen Gustafson is the Executive Director and Co-Founder of We the Veterans and Military Families, a nonpartisan, nonprofit organization that empowers more than 17 million veterans and military families living in the United States to help build a more perfect union. The call to build a more perfect union comes, of course, from the preamble to our Constitution and animates both what Ellen's organization does and what our goal is with Citizen Travelers.

Ellen is a proud Navy spouse and Navy and Coast Guard granddaughter. Beyond her work with We the Veterans and Military Families. Ellen is also co-founder of the Military Family Building Coalition, supporting active-duty military. She is also an author, has been a Fortune Most Powerful Woman Entrepreneur, and has given four TED Talks. She lives with her husband and three young children in Virginia Beach, Virginia. 

Next, I'd like to introduce Cory Johnson. Cory Johnson is a military and veteran Co-Chair of the Travelers Military/Veterans & Allies Diversity Network as well as Chairperson of his local Board of Education. Cory served in the U.S. Army and Army National Guard for 14 years as a military intelligence officer. He deployed to Afghanistan for 13 months in 2007 with the 82nd Airborne Division. He is also a proud military spouse and supporter.

In November 2023, Cory was reelected to the Rosemount-Apple Valley-Eagan School Board, the third largest public school district in Minnesota, with 30,000 students. Cory has been at Travelers for 12 years and is currently a Product Coach for the BI Business Capabilities Office.

We're so excited to have both Cory and Ellen with us today. With that bit of introduction, Ellen, can you kick us off by telling us a bit more about We the Veterans and Military Families and what you hope to accomplish through this organization?

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Text, Discovering Common Purpose: Veterans and Military Families and Civic Engagement. We the Veterans and Military Families. Ellen Gustafson speaks from a labeled video call tile in the upper right. 

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ELLEN GUSTAFSON: Yes. Thank you so much, Janice, for that introduction. And it's incredible to see what Travelers is doing with this space. It is so important for our country. And to see businesses take a leadership position like this is amazing. 

Obviously, we are at the kickoff of a national big election year. And we are trying to be one of the organizations that can talk about civics and things like our elections without any partisanship involved, which is totally possible. So it's really great to see Travelers be able to do that and take a leadership position.

So, I'm here as a military spouse, as a military family member, to talk about common purpose and to talk about how our veteran and military family population can really be some of the key civic assets and leaders in things that make our country great and in ways that our-- all Americans can work together.

So next slide.

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Text, Demographics of VMF. 

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I'm going to quickly talk about the community of veterans and military family members, which really often gets thought of as a separate group of people from the general population. There's that civil-military divide that people talk about. 

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Text, The Community. 43 million Plus. 2.1 million-plus service members. 16 million-plus veterans. 4.3 million post-9/11. 1.9 million Iraq and Afghanistan. Nearly 1 million spouses and adult dependents of current service members. 24 million-plus estimated spouses and adult children of separated veterans (1.5 per). Sources: Census.gov; 2021 DOD Demographics Report: Profile of the Military Community. 

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But we're a pretty big group of Americans. Obviously, the number of active-duty service members and veterans, then spouses and adult dependents who we're referring to-- there's, obviously, more children, but in the context of this civics conversation, we're talking about the adult population. And then the spouses and adult children of veterans, which really is a really important part of our community, people that have understood service from their time in service and from the experiences of their closest family members. So next slide. 

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Text, The VMF is: Diverse by race and gender. Diverse by state and ethnicity. Diverse by religion and political affiliation. Uniquely non-siloed in work and social interactions. Pluralism in practice. Sources: Census.gov; 2021 DOD Demographics Report: Profile of the Military Community. 

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The population is incredibly pluralistic. So it's diverse by race and gender, from where people come from, the state, their ethnic background, their religion. And they are not siloed, like many of our fellow countrymen, in their different populations. They're not siloed in their workplace. They're forced, in many ways, to have social interactions across many different areas of the country. And they live-- we live in a pluralistic world. 

And one of the reasons I started this organization was that I realized, as a military spouse living in America, that I had one of the most sort of diverse social media communities of all my friends. It was not siloed once-- one way or the other in any different set of binaries. And I thought that was incredibly important, but also unfortunately unique in our country.

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Text, Civic Engagement of Veterans. Veterans are more likely to: Vote in federal and local elections, Volunteer in their community, Belong to a civic organization, Donate to charity. 

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So next slide. 

Just to go through quickly where are we as a community in terms of civic engagement-- a lot of people think of the veteran population as having done our civic engagement when we-- when members of the veteran population were in the service. But actually, veterans are more likely to vote. They're more likely to volunteer. They're more likely to belong to a civic organization and more likely to donate to charity.

So the next slide will show just some data about veterans versus non-veterans. We're not talking about dramatic shifts, but consistent, consistent involvement in civics as a population-- so a really important civic asset, as we like to say.

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Text, Veterans' Civic Health. A bar chart compares veteran with non-veteran, with characteristics on the x-axis and percent from 0.00 to 80.00 on the y-axis. The characteristic, Registered, shows 80% of veterans and just over 70% for non-veterans. The characteristic, Voted, shows around 75% for veterans and around 65% for non-veterans. The characteristic, Vote in Local Elections, shows just over 60% for veterans and around 55% for non-veterans. The characteristic, Volunteering (under 50), shows just over 30% for veterans and around 30% for non-veterans. The characteristic, Do Something Positive for Their Neighborhood, shows just over 20% for veterans and 20% for non-veterans. The characteristic, Give to Charity, shows 60% for veterans and just over 50% for non-veterans. Text, Source: 2021 Veterans Civic Health Index. 

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Text, A Culture of Service. The military is increasing family business. For 50 years, all SMs have volunteered (with varied reasons), Post-9/11 veterans have found different outlets than older vets, Sense of purpose, Camaraderie, Part of something bigger. Sources: Census.gov; 2021 DOD Demographics Report: Profile of the Military Community. 

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And then, of course, if you go to the next slide, there is this culture of service in our families. So we say the military is increasingly a family business because over 70% of currently serving active duty members come from a military family. And of course, since the draft ended 50 years ago, all service members have volunteered to serve. 

So it's interesting we talk about volunteering. You, of course, do volunteer. And then you're paid. So it's one of those words that a lot of times Americans confuse. Yes, you are paid to be in the service. You have a paycheck. But you do have to actively sign up and volunteer to do it. So it's one of those amazing things that we know our fellow countrymen do. But we also know that our fellow countrymen don't do it in a wide-- necessarily the widest population that we could. It tends to be a more narrow population.

In the more recent veteran population, there have been different ways that people have found community and purpose. As we know with some of the modern, what they call post-9/11 VSOs, or veteran service organizations, groups like Team Rubicon and Team RWB, and The Mission Continues-- those are groups that gather veterans together to work on purposeful projects, whether it's in their own community or disaster relief or athletic engagements. It's really the way to connect veterans back into the community and get that feeling of doing something better than ourselves in the same way that people do when they're on active duty. So next slide.

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Text, Sentiments About Veterans and Military Families: Disciplined, Patriotic and Loyal. Source: Parker et al. The American Veteran Experience and the Post-9/11 Generation, Pew Research Center. September 10, 2019. 

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The other thing that's incredible about this population is that the vast majority of Americans across all political backgrounds and spectrums and ages consider the veteran and military family community to be one of trust, to be disciplined, patriotic, loyal. 

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Text, Trust and Confidence. Portion of Americans who: rate the Armed Forces as trustworthy, 69%, have confidence in veterans to do what's right for America, 80%, believe veterans are role models for good citizenship, 70%. Source: 2022 Veterans Day Report, The Veterans and Citizens Initiative. 

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We tend to try to do what's right for the country. We're good role models. 

These are really, really high marks for one population that actually makes up a lot of different subpopulations. So again-- pluralistic, but also really rated as trustworthy-- a reminder that America can come together and see all different types of people as being trustworthy and have confidence in them-- and so a really important reminder of how America is better when we all work together.

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Text, The Veteran and Military Family Network. VSOs, MSO, engagement and empowerment orgs. The VA - connected to half of all veterans. Vet the Vote case study. 6% of adults, 19% of Congress. 32% work in public service and charity. Military families - importance to the community and pro-democracy efforts/touchpoint to AD. Sources: Census.gov; 2021 DOD Demographics Report: Profile of the Military Community. 

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So if you go to the next slide about how we are organized, this is something else that's really interesting about our population. We have, certainly, many veteran organizations. But if you think of even your own company, we are a highly organized group. We have a veterans subgroup in many big companies. We have these known, big veterans organizations, military family organizations. We have the VA, where half of this big population is connected for its health care. 

And then we have our own case study, which I'll share a little bit about in the future. We're a highly well-networked group. We are very involved in politics. We are very involved in community service.

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Text, The Veteran and Military Family Solution. Agents of Democracy. Respected leaders and public servants Widely trusted. Pluralistic and Practiced in Pluralism. Civically engaged, service-oriented. Dispersed, organized and easy to mobilize. 

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And so we are a great way to access a lot of America through a relatively small number of organizations. 

So, if you go to the next slide, we took this, as a relatively new organization, to be an opportunity for our democracy. Again, we're respected. We're trusted. We're pluralistic. We're already civically engaged. And we're spread all across the country.

So, if you go to the next slide, our core mission as an organization is that right now, there is a sense of fraying of our social fabric and a loss of trust across many different populations. We believe that this community, the veteran and military family, VMF community, getting engaged and getting more visible in our work for our democracy and in civics actually creates a positive cycle that will push back to the country in many ways that's very, very needed.

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Text, Trust and Engagement leads to Social Cohesion and Consensus leads to Stronger Democracy and Union. A chart is divided into a blue section and a red section. Two circles in the blue section say, Americans Trust VMF, and, VMF community gets stronger. Arrows point from these circles to each other, and to third circle that overlaps the blue and red portions of the chart. It reads, VMF get engaged. It points to two circles in the red portion of the chart, which also point to each other. These circles say, Overall trust in democracy, and, Americans get more engaged. These two white circles plus the VMF get engaged circle point to a blue circle that reads, Foundations of democracy gets stronger. 

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Trust in our democracy, trust in our institutions, strengthening the foundations of what makes our country work-- and we need all of these bureaucratic institutions spread across different areas of our life to make the country work. And we believe that the more visible veterans and military family members can be in those institutions, the more trustworthy they’ll be. 

So the next few slides-- like I said, the crossover of our veteran and military family community and civic engagement is where We the Veterans and Military Families was born.

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Two ovals overlap. They say, VMF Community, and, Civic Engagement. The We the Veterans and Military Families logo overlaps both ovals. 

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So the next slide-- just a few more data points. 

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Text, We the Veterans and Military Families. Theories of Change: Public health, systems approach. TVP equals Civic Engagement equals Solving Core VMF Challenges. Big Tent Coalition Model/Partnerships. 

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We have a theory of change that if we take a systems approach and a public health approach to the way our democracy works, we can actually make really big change. We use the systems that exist. We use the people that are already there. And we bring those best practices to the forefront. 

We believe that solving complex problems, like the rise in violence in our country, actually just needs more civic engagement and solving core challenges that the military family and veteran community deal with, which then, of course, creates a positive cycle for the whole population. We have challenges in the veteran and military family community of job security. Well, you solve that, you solve a lot of other problems in America. So we think we are a great model for solving challenges across the country. And we believe strongly that a big tent coalition model and partnerships across many different sectors is the way you get things done in our country. So next slide.

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Text, Our Focus Areas to Engage VMF. Increase Patriotic Civic Engagement. Civic engagement, built around an informed citizenry and civil discourse, is the basis of a healthy democracy. We believe that the veteran and military family community is uniquely positioned to "lead by example" in an increasingly polarized society, and we are building networks and programs to empower them to do that in new and meaningful ways. Targeted Violence Prevention. An individual's radicalization and mobilization to violence, as well as their desistance, disengagement, and de-radicalization journey are highly individualized - there is not one pathway into or out of violent extremism, requiring multi-level prevention strategies. We aim to engage a cross-sectoral partner group to develop and launch those strategies. Promote Information Integrity. Misinformation is not a new phenomenon, but the immediacy, scope, and ease of its dissemination and consumption through digital media present a new set of challenges. We are building an ecosystem of partners from across government, tech, academia, and other mission-aligned organizations to launch research-backed initiatives that will have a measurable impact. Represent Our Community. We believe the voice of the silent majority of veterans and military family members who demonstrate patriotism through continued service and support to their communities is missing from the national conversation on all of the challenges our democracy faces. We aim to be fact-based, solution-oriented advocates for our community on these issues across government, tech, academia, and other mission-aligned organizations to launch research-backed initiatives that will have a measurable impact.

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Our focus areas as an organization are to increase patriotism and civic engagement, to promote information integrity, to stop the violence that sometimes has spread across our country, and to represent our community well. So next slide. 

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Text, We the Veterans and Military Families. Increase Positive Patriotic Engagement. Ensure that our Community and Country is Safe from Online Threats. Protect Information Integrity. 

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Positive patriotism, keeping people safe from online threats and from online-- different information, and to protect information integrity for all people, not to take sides, not to try to make choices for people, but to make sure that we actually can have civil dialogue by coming to the table together-- and the key way that we've done that, which is the next slide, is through our Vet the Vote campaign. 

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The Vet the Vote logo appears, with a sideways The and star in the center of the O in Vote.

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We established this campaign in 2022. We saw that America needed more poll workers to make our elections work. And we thought, wow, what an opportunity to reach out to this highly organized, pluralistic, across-the-country population of veterans and military family members and ask them to serve as poll workers. 

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Text, Vet the Vote. Iraq and Afghanistan Vet America, Count Every Hero, AMVETS, National Military Family Association, Military Officer Association of America (MOAA), Disabled Veteran Empowerment Network (DVEN), Mission Role Call, The Elizabeth Dole Foundation, Union Veterans Council, Veterans for Political Innovation, The Mission Continues, The Veterans and Citizens Initiative, Veterans for American Ideals, Vet Voice Foundation, Veteran Business Project, The Rosie Network, PsychArmor, Minority Veterans of America, Blue Star Families, New Politics, Leadership Now Project, Partners in Promise, Civic Alliance, The National Football League (NFL), US Chamber of Commerce Hiring our Heroes, Partnership for American Democracy, First Amendment Voice, Student Veterans of America, Pat Tillman Foundation, Witness to War, Grey Team, Combined Arms, Veterans for Common Sense, Secure Families Initiative, More Perfect Union. 

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We collected-- on the next slide you'll see-- a coalition of 40-plus organizations across the military family and veteran community, but including civic organizations like the NFL and the Chamber of Commerce. And we gathered these folks together to say, look, let's very directly ask this population to sign up to serve again as poll workers. 

And of course, the mission was let's make sure we have enough poll workers to run our elections. But let's remind America that these people who serve as poll workers are serving. And as veterans serving again, we create a really positive view of what a poll worker might be.

The amazing news about this program is that in 2022, America needed 120,000 poll workers to fill its need. And in our community, we pushed out-- we pushed through the VA and all of these VSOs. We recruited 63,500 veterans and military family members to fill half of America's need in 2022.

And so we're really excited to do it again in 2024 and to get big numbers to remind America that when you go vote, you are very likely to see a volunteer helping you fill out the paperwork and check your ID and do all the things you need, to get the right pen-- you're very likely to see a veteran or military family member among those volunteers. Next slide.

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Text, New Programs. Similar logos for Vet the News and Vet Our Democracy appear. 

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We've also developed a program to try to connect people back to the veterans who are actually working in the news media. And we have a podcast trying to actually educate our population about how our democracy and country work. The irony is people assume that in the veteran and military family population, we know more about how civic works than the general population. But in many ways, we don't. 

So we would like to see that. So next slide is just to say we would love to invite members of the Travelers military family and veteran community into Vet the Vote and to keep being the incredible civic assets that you are for our country.

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Text, Onward! Janice reappears. 

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JANICE BRUNNER: So much, Ellen-- I think We the Veterans and Military Families is an amazing organization. And we're so glad to have you here today and to spread the word about it. I can see all these claps coming through the screen, which is amazing. 

So I couldn't agree more. But we will come back with some more. I'm looking forward to a discussion. In the meantime, I want to turn it over to Cory and have Cory tell us a little bit more about the work he does with the Travelers Military & Veterans Allies Diversity Network and, as well, his role on the school board.

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Cory Johnson appears in a labeled video call tile in the upper right. Text, Military/Veterans and Allies Diversity Network Objectives. Text beside a photo of a smiling man reads, Develop awareness of military members' skills and experiences that may impact the business in unique ways. The Travelers red umbrella logo and the Travelers Military/Veterans and Allies Diversity Network logo sit at the bottom of the slide. 

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CORY JOHNSON: Absolutely. Thank you so much, Janice, for the introduction, and also just for welcoming me to be a part of this with another distinguished guest, Ellen. It's just been so great hearing your introduction, Ellen, and the mission that you support with We the Veterans. 

So hello, everyone. Again, my name is Cory Johnson. I am a Co-Chair for the Military/Veterans & Allies Diversity Network here at Travelers. We are a diversity network. At some other organizations they may refer to different diverse networks-- may have an employee resource group. But we brand that here at Travelers as a diversity network.

And what we do is-- I really want to call out the "allies" part of our network, too. So we support military veterans, military-connected employees, spouses, family members. But also really interesting-- 60% or more of our members at Travelers are allies, what we consider-- maybe not a directly connected-- military-connected employee. However, they join our network to support because they believe in the mission.

So our mission really has four prongs that we really look at here at Travelers. We want to develop awareness of military members' skills and experiences that may impact the business in unique ways. A lot of military might come after a 20-year career serving in the armed forces and might come to enter the private sector working and may need some assistance, both from the military side and also from a hiring manager side, deciphering what that experience looks like and what that-- skills that they can bring then into the private sector. Next slide.

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A photo and text appear on the slide. In the photo, people in military fatigues sit at long desks. Text, Promote military and veteran friendly policies at Travelers that recognize the unique sacrifices of current military members, veterans and their families. 

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We also promote military- and veteran-friendly policies at Travelers that recognize the unique sacrifices of current military members and their families. There are a lot of laws that protect National Guard and reservists. But there's also a lot of things that organizations can do to help them and support them even more. We're always looking for ways that we can go above and beyond to support our military-connected employees and how we can work to achieve that. Next slide, please. 

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Another photo with more text appears. The photo shows a wall with a sign that reads, Honoring Our Veterans, above rows of framed pictures. Text, Provide support for military and veteran employees and their families. 

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We also provide support for our military and veteran employees and their families and-- last one-- to manage and participate in outreach events within local communities. 

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In another photo, people pose in a group. A man at the center wears a military uniform. Text, Manage and participate in outreach events within local communities. 

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Running a Military/Veterans & Allies Diversity Network is amazing. And one thing that always touches me is how much our members want to continue to give back to the community. So one thing that we do as a diversity network is then find out how we can take our membership in order to help veterans and military-connected families in the community. 

One other thing I really want to call out is our support of military spouses. So military spouses are sometimes faced with a very unique challenge. A lot of times, these are spouses that are following their partner on active duty. Sometimes when you're on active duty, you move a lot more frequently. And there's a lot of times that spouses put their own personal career on hold in order to tend to their families. Sometimes, we say that military spouses serve just as much, if not more, than their military counterpart. Next slide, please.

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Text, Current State. A social media post from Travelers Careers shows a desk with a computer monitor. Text on the image reads, Military Recruiting Virtual Career Fair. Post text above the image reads, Calling all veterans, military members and military spouses. Connect with the Travelers Insurance team at the Jan. 26 Gl Jobs Virtual Career Expo to learn more about careers for military and military spouses at Travelers. Register here: https://travl.rs/3rsY4mz. Text on the slide reads, Since 2020, Travelers has hired 185 plus Military Spouses across 60 plus base locations. Copyright 2024 The Travelers Indemnity Company. All rights reserved. 

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So a couple things that we've done at Travelers in order to recognize that is that we really like to invest in military spouses and find opportunities where they don't have to put their career on hold. Maybe we can offer them some sort of remote work or arrangement in order to further their career while they're still supporting their partner. 

So I'm happy to say that since 2020, when we really started finding ways to support specific military spouses, we have now hired over 185 military spouses across 60 different locations. And many of those are active-duty locations.

So that's just a little bit about the Military/Veterans & Allies Diversity Network. But Janice, you also asked me to talk about my civic engagement. So when I'm not here at Travelers, working in our Business Insurance office, but-- and as Co-Chair for the Military/Veterans & Allies Diversity Network, I also chair our-- my local school board.

So I'm the Chairperson for Rosemount-Apple Valley-Eagan Public Schools. I am now in my fifth year of service on that school board. I just ran for reelection this past November and was reelected for another four-year term.

As chairperson, one of my duties is overseeing the superintendent, representing the public and the community back to the school district, setting policies, budget oversight and just about everything you can think about in between. There's always something new going on.

Our district is actually the third largest school district in Minnesota. That's out of 331 school districts we have. We're the third largest. We serve almost 30,000 students now. And we continue to grow. We've also seen birth rates across Minnesota and, really, countrywide sometimes go down in certain pockets. Our school district is not just remaining flat, but it's still growing a little bit. So we're planning-- we continue to plan for the next evolution of kindergartners about to hit our schools and supporting them all the way through graduation.

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Janice reappears. 

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JANICE BRUNNER: Thanks so much, Cory. That's great. 

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The slide disappears, and Janice and Cory's tiles grow, sitting side-by-side, 

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I think that's a great segue into our next conversation and our discussion. And I just want to remind people to put questions in the chat. We'll hope to get to them at the end. 

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Ellen's tile reappears, joining the others. 

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But both Ellen and Cory, I think you touched on this in your opening remarks about why are veterans and military leaders uniquely positioned to be leaders in the civic space and what makes them particularly effective in that role. Ellen, you want to kick that off? 

ELLEN GUSTAFSON: Yeah. Well, first of all, I wanted to say it is so awesome to see what you guys are doing for military spouses because it's amazing. I've been a-- married to the Navy for 12 years. And it absolutely has affected my career, my friends' careers. It's amazing how all of a sudden, I realized this is the most important thing in my life. I should probably be working in this community. So-- which is-- hence why I'm running an organization in this space.

But I think, like I was saying with some of the data, which I think is important for people to understand, we are really, actually, very diverse community. But we have this common bond. And the common bond happens to be patriotism.

And so, I just think that's-- it's a rarity now, which is awful. And we're actively working to try to overcome that. But to have a group of people that, actually, our common bond is not just our citizenship, is not just the soil on which we live, it's actually that we have committed to do something to make our country better-- and there's just something really powerful about that and remembering that and saying, it's not just because we might have gone off and had to do a difficult deployment together.

It's actually that we had this core mission that happens to be fundamentally about our love of country. And again, it's-- we've got to find ways to make that a little bit more common and that we can teach the rest of the country what it means to feel that way.

JANICE BRUNNER: You can really be a beacon or a leader in that regard. It's very inspiring. Cory?

CORY JOHNSON: Yeah. I completely agree, Ellen. And I would just say a lot of people join the armed forces. They join the military for a variety of different reasons. Some have this innate service to defend their country and to serve their country. Some maybe are following a friend that maybe is joining. Some maybe just are looking for an avenue to pay for their post-secondary education. And that military recruiter calls them up, and that sounds very tempting, those GI Bill benefits.

So there's a lot of different reasons of why people join the military. However, what I can say is what's amazing about the armed forces is that regardless of why you decide to enlist or go through ROTC or OCS, regardless of the reason why you actually join the armed forces, the military does a really good job of baselining everyone when you're going through training together.

They instill this sense of patriotism for you. They instill the sense of country, defending your country, and really a brotherhood and sisterhood with your-- the men and women that are standing by your side, defending your country-- that trust that you give to them.

Regardless of the reason when you join the military, when you're done, you're always going to have this innate sense of patriotism and ways-- and still wanting to give back. That's actually one of the reasons I joined my local school board. I got out of my 14-year career in the military. And I still had a need to give back. And I was reflecting on my service and what I've done over my career of what-- how can I give that back. And my response to myself was really, well, in the educational space, how can I give back there?

So similar, I think no matter why you join, you leave with a sense of purpose, of patriotism, and still this need to continue to serve your community, even when you're done serving in the armed forces.

JANICE BRUNNER: Makes perfect sense. I think that actually was our next question-- was really, how did your military service inspire you to become more involved in your community? I think you hit that already, Cory. Ellen, I wonder if there's anything else you want to say about that?

ELLEN GUSTAFSON: Well, yeah. The real story here-- and I've worked in the nonprofit space. And I've done different things with social-driven, cause-driven work. But actually, it was COVID for me. And my husband was deployed. Actually, he deployed in February, before lockdown started. And I had two 1-year-olds who are twins and a not yet 3-year-old.

And I was surviving with that situation and a deployed husband. And my best assets were my fellow military spouses, many of whom I had, on paper, nothing in common with. We were not from the same kind of places. We didn't have the same backgrounds. We didn't even have the same family structures. We didn't have the same politics. We didn't have the same-- but they got me through.

Whether it was dropping food off at each other's houses or just-- and I realize that everyone went through COVID in crazy survival ways. But to see that I was part of a community that wasn't-- I didn't just go back to my family. I didn't just go back to my college friends or whatever. I went to this group of people that the thing we have in common is this military service experience and that our husbands were deployed together.

And that is so cool in this incredibly toxic environment that many of us live in with-- if we disagree about one thing, there-- all of a sudden, everything explodes-- to have that sense of what we can really do for each other, regardless of how similar we are, just really inspired me. And that is what made me want to start this organization-- nothing negative, actually, something totally positive-- that what a possibility. What else could happen if this community got together in the way that my little, small unit did?

JANICE BRUNNER: I think that's such a-- it's such a powerful message and such a powerful model because I think part of what we think about at Citizen Travelers is you focus on the positive, like what-- and that's what you're doing-- what unites us versus what divides us. And so much of what goes on, I think, today and what people are feeling a little anxious about is that the focus is on what divides us rather than what unites us.

And so, I think the model for civic engagement is when you get out into your community and you're working with people that you might not always otherwise cross paths with, you find the common theme. You find the common bond. And you humanize each other. And you learn, hey, I actually really like this person that I never would have met otherwise. And so that's why civic engagement can be so powerful. And I think that what you just described is a really great model for it. So amazing.

So, I think we're at the next question I have. But I think these all run together-- is how can strengthening civic engagement and informed citizenry among active-duty members help our communities as they carry these lessons into their post-military life? So, I think one of the things we always find with these webinars is active examples of what people can do and how this can make a difference like action items, so to speak. I wondered if you could speak to that?

ELLEN GUSTAFSON: Yeah. I'll jump in first, Cory.

CORY JOHNSON: Please, go ahead.

ELLEN GUSTAFSON: So, I think, like I was saying, there's so many reasons, unfortunately because of things like social media, that can cause people to say, I'm-- there's-- we're at war. There's this sense of that. But I think people's experience on active duty will have cross-cultural dynamics. It just will. And so, the ability to say, I had this experience, I know that I can work well with people from different backgrounds, and really trying to find how we can help service members as they transition use that as one of their core value propositions as they move into the rest of their lives is one of the more hopeful things.

A lot of narratives about people in the military and people who get out of the military are really negative. And we don't elevate this incredibly positive experience people have, almost speaking a foreign language. The ability to work in cross-cultural environments is a language that a lot of Americans, unfortunately, don't have. But service members do and spouses do because we live in this world. We know you can be born in one state, and you are definitely not going to live there if you're going to serve in the military for a certain period of time.

So that's one thing. But I also think we really have an opportunity as a community of military members to utilize and take seriously the trust that people have in us. And I think if we-- as an organization, we feel really strongly that when people are looking at you-- and it's not just in person. But it's also online. And therefore, your voice is a little bit louder than other people's.

You have a real moral responsibility for that. And I think that's something that we hope to instill in the community of military members plus the community of veterans to say, we're not trying to tell you what to think or what not to think, but that people are watching you. And the trust in you is fragile. And America may not always trust members of the military and veterans. But it's really up to us to try to maintain that and strengthen that going forward.

There was a time when it was almost impossible to be elected into elected office in this country if you had not served. Of course, that was a time when mostly men were being elected. And there's a lot of other challenges with that. But there's a value there. And that value could slip away.

So there's a real-- it's on us to maintain that. And I think focusing on the positive patriotism, the civic assets that this community is, will really help to maintain that. But it's also a little bit of self-policing-- that if people are looking at you, we're given some minimal training as military family members to not share national security information. Don't share the exact date that the aircraft carrier is going to get back to port because that's public information that maybe the government doesn't want everyone to share. But it's actually that-- from that perspective that we can really have a little bit elevated sense of our voice and our positioning in the public sphere and what responsibility that carries for us.

CORY JOHNSON: Yeah, I completely agree with everything you said, Ellen. I loved it. And I really love what you talked about about that moral obligation that military veterans and connected employees might have about how people are watching you to set an example, whether you know it or not. So Janice, you asked a little bit about how can the military think about strengthening that. I'd say part of it is letting them know and making it very apparent that you're setting an example because some military members might not even realize that, might not even realize that their words carry weight because of their service to their country.

So I think actually educating them about how that's perceived can be a huge asset just so that they realize you are-- people are looking to what you say. And they're looking at you to set an example, whether you're in or whether you're getting out of the military, and whether you're stepping into maybe a civic service type of position because of that trust, that trust that you are almost innately given just because of your service history.

The other thing I'd add a little bit is-- and Ellen, you touched on this just a tiny bit, too. One of those reasons that sometimes I feel like military members can be really, really great in their community after service is because of this-- when you get in the military, whatever branch, you're thrown in with people all-- in all ways, shapes, forms, sizes, from different backgrounds across the country, different family structure dynamics, diversity, income levels, all together. And you're just thrown together and say, oh, you're a team now. Figure out how to work together.

And it takes a long time to figure out how to work together and to figure out how to have those conversations when you're around a lot of people that don't look, sound, act, or anything like you. But it's the same for every single person around. And why I say that that's an asset is because-- Ellen, you also alluded to some of the struggles we're going through right now as a country with some disagreement and things like that.

I've found being on the school board, I am constantly speaking with people that have different ideas, that have different thoughts and suggestions. And I can tell you sometimes when I hear any discomfort in that voice, being able to sit down and have that conversation with the person is how we get over it.

It's not stating your facts on social media and then having the other person state theirs. That doesn't go anywhere, ever. But when I can get on the phone and have that conversation with them and say, I want to hear what you have to say, and then have you thought about this, and talking about different viewpoints and coming to consensus, at the end of the day, we might still not agree. And that's OK.

No one's saying you-- we have to agree on everything. But I think it's important to be open to different viewpoints and hear those people out in those different viewpoints. And that's how, at least, you can agree to disagree and move forward, at least being able to say you feel you were heard.

And that's why sometimes I think about those skills that you learn in the military, being able to listen and talk with people regardless of their background, can really be an asset then when you're moving into a civic engagement role because it gives you those tools to be able to have those conversations with people that might not think exactly like you, but still need to be heard.

JANICE BRUNNER: Yeah, that's-- I think that's exactly one of the things we talk about at Citizen Travelers-- is this virtuous cycle. So there's skills that we learn at Travelers-- innovation, leadership, collaboration, working as a team. And those are skills that make you a great civic leader. And you bring those skills out into the community. And then, in turn, you learn-- you meet a diverse group of people.

You learn different perspectives. You learn new skills in that civic role, bring those back to Travelers. So Travelers wins.

So I think it sounds like that's exactly what you're saying in the sense of the things that you learn through military service or as a military spouse are really great skills to bring out into the community as a civic leader. And then the cycle continues. Are there any specific examples you have of on your time on the school board where you said, wow, this is exactly-- this is something I learned in the military that I am applying here?

CORY JOHNSON: Oh, I have so many examples. I'd say I have so many examples. Here's a very extreme example. But I'll give it because we've all lived through it, and we've already mentioned it, being on a school board during COVID, when nobody knew what was going on.

So I was elected to the school board. I was elected in November of 2019. I assumed office in January of 2020. Within my first 90 days, I was being asked to close 37 schools to almost 30,000 students. How do we do that? And I think everyone remembers that time. What do you do? How do you navigate that?

Well, it's tough. It's tough. There was a lot of years that was really tough navigating. And there were a lot of really tough decisions we had to make. But I'll answer it with two things.

One thing that the military-- that I relied on my military service and background quite a bit during that time for really was being able and being comfortable making decisions, even when I didn't have all the information available, because a decision had to be made by a certain time. And that can be very difficult, making decisions in ambiguity. That is a difficult thing to be comfortable with. And there are a lot of times when I was uncomfortable with the decision.

And I'll be transparent. Maybe some of the decisions I made, with hindsight, maybe wasn't the right decision, looking back on it. However, I was comfortable knowing that the decision I made at the time was the best decision knowing the available information I had. And that's a skill 100% the military taught me.

And a lot of times in civic engagement and civic leadership specifically, you're going to be asked to make a lot of different decisions. And you need to be comfortable with those decisions and know that decision might need to be made at a certain time, even if you don't have all the information.

And then the other example I give is that, again, during COVID and during a lot of other times, there were a lot of opinions out there. And there was a lot of very strong emotion behind those opinions. And I tell people, of course there should be, especially when I talk about-- we're talking about people's children.

I engage in the educational space. These are K through 12, pre-K, and even some post 18-year-old-- post graduate support. But these are all people's children. Of course, you're going to have strong emotions you feel when you feel like you're doing the right thing for your kids.

But what I would do is I would just go back to the same skills I just was talking about earlier-- is being able to get on the phone and have a conversation and hear that and practice skills like empathy, which the military teaches you how to have empathy for people, being able to practice those skills by listening, hearing them out, and then talking about issues versus necessarily focusing on the emotion. But talking through that really helps de-escalate situations, help people know that we're all working for the same outcome. Every single person wants what's best for our kids. And we're just trying to navigate the best way to do that.

I'd say both those, the comfortableness with making decisions in ambiguity and being able to practice skills like empathy by having conversations in order to get to the proper outcome that we're all trying to achieve together.

JANICE BRUNNER: I'm sold on the skills that the military, as a military spouse, that translate into civic engagement, for sure. And Ellen, I'm sure you have many examples in addition to the ones you've already shared.

One other thing I wondered if you could touch on, as well, is one of the things that I found very interesting when we had a conversation before the webinar was that you said sometimes there's common assumptions that veterans and military families have this heightened civic knowledge or somehow are in some way experts when it comes to civics in some way due to their military service. And I think one of the things we talked upon is that's not necessarily always true. You may have many other skills you're learning. But it's not that-- that might not always be the case. And how do we-- did I interpret that right? And how do we elevate the civics knowledge?

ELLEN GUSTAFSON: It's so true. And I say this. And I say this around veterans and military family members and active-duty military all the time. People assume, since you swore an oath to defend the Constitution, if you're a veteran or a military member or if you married into the military, that somehow you got that Civics 101, government, read the whole Constitution, know what all the three branches do, know what all the different agencies do, and you're the expert. And you don't. You don't. They will cut your hair. But they do not necessarily give you a baseline civics course about how our government works or what our Constitution actually says.

And that is something that we have to be honest about as a community because people give us credit for knowing. And so you hear people all the time on all different sides of every political issue acting as though they have a very specific expertise about how our government works just because they were in the military. And now you have an expertise in certain civic skills. But it doesn't mean you have an expertise in actually how our government works or how our elections work or how our-- or what every little detail of the Constitution and every amendment says.

No, you could study that on your own. I'm not saying people don't. But I think that that misplaced credit just about those-- that information-- not about the skills, but about the information-- it has been dangerous over the years of our country in different ways. There's different historical examples of that.

But I think what's an opportunity is to say, should we be then? Should we try to know more, because if we're going to be given credit for it, should we? And we've, as an organization, thought a lot about that. How can you help people learn more?

We did a really funny thing as an organization. We started this podcast. The first episode we did was we actually gave ourselves, the leaders of the organization-- we gave ourselves the citizenship test because you're born into this country. You do not have to take a citizenship test. So you actually might not know the answers.

We did not get 100%. Every one of us, even people who were retired military, retired Marine Corps-- we did not get-- none of us got 100%. We were close. We all passed. But I think that was-- it was our humility to say, we're pretty educated people.

And we've been around this community. We still don't know some of the intricacies of our different branches of government and how many representatives and how many-- that's content that you don't necessarily learn. You learn skills. But that's different.

And I think one of the things, though, that I think is actually really cool that we do learn is this much deeper sense of the differences of different parts of America-- in other words, the South, the North, the East, the West, the Midwest, the subtleties, the this, the coastal areas. And I think an amazing skill is the ability to bloom where you're planted and see what's best in all these different areas of the country.

I lived in New York City for many years. And then I spent six years in San Diego. And now I've spent six years in Virginia Beach, Virginia, two places I never in a million years would have thought I would have lived when I was living in New York City as a young person, but incredible places to live. And I love both of these places so much more. I have found so much more culture and things to love about these places. And I would never have had that benefit as a citizen of this country without the military pulling me to them. So that is-- that's content that we do know.

(DESCRIPTION)
Janice and Cory nod. 

(SPEECH)
JANICE BRUNNER: Cory, I don't know if you have anything you wanted to add to that? 

CORY JOHNSON: You know what? I'd love to. But honestly, Ellen, you've covered everything I had. That was awesome.

JANICE BRUNNER: That's great. I think that's one thing that I've learned in engaging with Citizen Travelers, too-- is that there's always more to learn about-- from a civics perspective-- to be a more informed citizen and just to be able to filter through all the information that is out there. It's great to have a baseline of nonpartisan knowledge so that you can evaluate things in your own right. And so that's one of the goals we have for Citizen Travelers as well.

CORY JOHNSON: I will say, after this webinar, I'm going to go on and take that citizenship test. Now I'm curious how I do.

ELLEN GUSTAFSON: It's so fun. It's so fun. It's also humbling. You're like, oh, wow, yikes. Here you thought you were this really smart person.

JANICE BRUNNER: That makes sense. I think we should all do that.

I want to leave enough time-- I'm just scanning through the questions. I want to make sure that we leave enough time to get to some of the audience questions. And one of the first ones that came up-- it's from Michelle in California. She said, if people are divided on politics, unclear on constitutional rights, et cetera, how can we get people to engage or even respond to civic-- calls for more civic engagement in the community? I wondered if you could share your thoughts on that.

ELLEN GUSTAFSON: Yeah.

CORY JOHNSON: Oh, go ahead, Ellen.

ELLEN GUSTAFSON: Oh, go ahead. Go for it. You go. You go.

CORY JOHNSON: I was just going to say-- and I'll be a little brief here. But I'd say it's twofold. I think when I see these very polarized opinions, there's two things happening. One person has a truth that they know is the truth. And they're talking with another person that also has their truth that they know is the truth. And then when they come together, they can't-- it's very difficult to have a discussion when you're already grounded in the same truth.

So when you ask what you can do, the first thing I'd say is that when you go in-- because the No. 1 I already talked about. It's the importance of having the conversation. But I'd also say you can't go into the conversation knowing you have all the answers. Even if you think you're 100% correct and you've been living this way for so long, I think at the end of the day, you still have to acknowledge that another person has a very strong point of view for a very specific reason.

And let's have that conversation and develop that empathy for that view so that then we can start to work towards it. If everyone comes and approaches every very difficult conversation from the base that they know that they're right, all that's going to happen is you're going to get more polarized.

So I always say approach these situations from the viewpoint that you might not have all the answers. That will sometimes put you then on a level to be able to actually engage with that conversation. And when the person you're talking with realizes that you're open to hearing their viewpoint, really soon, they get open to hearing your viewpoint as well.

And that's how you move forward and stop. Maybe at the end of the day, you're not totally in sync. But instead of getting more polarized, you're now starting to come together and talk through your issues.

JANICE BRUNNER: Great advice.

ELLEN GUSTAFSON: And I would add that what I've found living this life as a military spouse, especially in really polarized times, is that what-- everything that I've heard an American in good faith say, and this is the vast majority of Americans-- are people in good faith talking about these issues. Everything that different people have said has a little kernel of truth in it.

When we talk about things like this, the buzz words of misinformation and fake news, all of these different things actually do-- are grounded in some facts. And then it's-- somehow, things get muddied.

And the other thing is that every media-- no, every mainstream media source, whether it's on the left or on the right or it's a newspaper, not necessarily website-- but it has fact, articles, news articles, and opinion articles. And I think we've lost a little bit of the ability to say-- you could read a lot of different news sources and only read opinion and literally not really know what's going on in any which way. You could read a lot of different news sources that are all on the different sides of the spectrum and just read the news stories, not the opinion stories, and actually come away with a fairly balanced sense of what's going on.

There's a great website that we recommend to people called Ad Fontes, A-D F-O-N-T-E-S, like "fon-tahs." And it's a bias analysis site. And it shows all biases. We're not talking about one side or the other. But it's a really great tool to use when you're talking to people to say, hey, I saw this piece of media on this site. This is biased this way. And you're maybe talking about another piece of media you saw on this site. This is biased this way.

So somewhere in the middle of these two is probably the right answer. And it doesn't mean I'm totally right. It doesn't mean you're totally wrong. It just means that there's a kernel of truth to what you're saying. There's a kernel of truth to what I'm saying. And we've got to find a way to meet somewhere and get to something that, actually, we can agree on as some ground rules. So those are just some very specific tactics that I've seen over the years.

JANICE BRUNNER: I like that. I think there's another site that-- it's called AllSides. And it has-- it'll show a news story. And it has the same news story reported by left, right and center and how it's reported differently. And it's just interesting sometimes to be able to look at a lot-- several different perspectives on the same event and see how they're coming across differently because I think what we've talked about, what we've hit on today, and maybe not used this word, is this idea that sometimes people are in an echo chamber.

And so they're going-- they're around people that see things similarly to-- they do. And they're reading news sources that reinforce the same idea. And that contributes to the polarization because you're not getting into this conversation with someone who's offering the other side.

And I think what you said about being in the military is that that-- it just doesn't happen because everybody-- it's really a population that cuts across many different perspectives and experiences. And so how do we mirror that in our everyday lives? And I think coming up with some good ideas for that. Civic engagement is a really great one. Obviously, I'm a fan.

ELLEN GUSTAFSON: Biased.

JANICE BRUNNER: Yeah, exactly. So my own bias. I'm a civic-- bias for civic engagement.

So I think the-- another question I have-- and we touched on this a little bit. But I think it's an interesting one. Mark from Illinois asks, how can we help change negative perceptions about the various branches of military service?

I think we've talked a lot about how positive the perceptions are-- of the military are today. And I wonder if you can just touch on that since the questions have come in.

ELLEN GUSTAFSON: So this is what's so interesting. We're living in a time when people still have this high level of trust of people who are veterans. And yet people talk about how veteran suicide and mental health challenges and homelessness and a lot of people on one side of the-- there's this crazy rant, this incredible report, that there's a group of people who think the military is way too woke and there's that population. And then there's another group of people that think that the military is all a bunch of far-right extremists.

And so obviously, both of those can't be right at the same time. But the fact is-- the fact that those two very strong perspectives exist and the fact that there's a lot of negative media about a damaged veteran mean that there's a pretty significant portion of people that are seeing a really negative view of the military.

I'll tell you a funny story. I was watching and my husband was watching a couple of episodes with me. And of course, there was an-- early in the scene-- all of a sudden has the terrible flashback from his time in the service. And my husband got so mad. He's like, now we have another veteran on a popular show that is damaged with PTSD.

And I'm not saying it's not serious and it doesn't exist. It does. It is serious. But every character being a veteran having this one universal affliction is not good for our country. And it's certainly not good for military recruiting because now you have a whole bunch of parents who don't want their kids to join because they think this is the only possible outcome.

So I think we as a country have to have some level-setting about the military is not a monolith. The experience of a veteran is not monolithic. The person who joins the military is not all one kind of person.

And the more that we are open about that and that we remind America that people look very different and can all be in this one community-- the more we actually open the door to recruiting and this more universal sense of who these folks are-- and then I think that's why-- one of the reasons that we run this organization-- is to bring that visual of a-- of what incredible work veterans and military family members can do to people's doorstep as much as we can.

And I'm not saying we're the only ones who can do that. But there's a lot of America who can feel like they're part of a military family, even from their grandfather. And the more we bring those people to a sense of duty and purpose because of that connection, no matter how tenuous, the more we normalize it. And then hopefully, it'll increase recruiting numbers and it'll increase the breadth of people who serve and the ways that you can serve. And people join AmeriCorps. You don't have to join the military. So I'm so glad you asked that question because we have to have some real talk about people's perceptions.

CORY JOHNSON: Yeah. I'm so glad you mentioned that, Ellen, too, because to your point, veterans aren't one thing. And veteran suicide and PTSD is a real issue happening right now. And sometimes, we-- when we hear enough about real issues-- and by the way, it is a real issue. And we are-- there's a lot of programs at the VA trying to help this.

But when we as a community hear about so many issues, we tend to attribute-- that is the whole perception of this community. But you can be a post-9/11 era veteran who has PTSD who still goes to work every day and doesn't have serious flashbacks or maybe doesn't need severe interventions. You can be suffering from depression and still be getting mental health support that allows you to function.

But if we go and take that stigma, that's all we're hearing, and all of a sudden, we create this bias and every time we meet someone in the military, you're like, oh, are you OK, that's not going to help military-connected employees as a whole. It's not going to help recruitment numbers, like you said.

I think, to your point, I think what we really have to do is just recognize that you can be a lot of different things at the same time. You can be unwell some days and really well and able to contribute another day. And that's OK from a mental health standpoint. We want to get people the support they need.

You can be incredibly civically minded and engaged and want to contribute to the community, and also go to your local VA for care. That's OK. And you have to understand that, again, we're not just one thing. But we can work at some of the challenges that military-- that the military community faces, and also recognize all the contributions they give as well.

JANICE BRUNNER: Really, really important. I think we could have a whole 'nother discussion about that. I think what-- that leads to another question. And I think-- where do people find veterans group to donate time and money to or other ways to get involved? What's the first step?

Ellen, I think we definitely will put information about your organization, a link to your organization. I think that's a really good first place to start. And any other suggestions on that point?

ELLEN GUSTAFSON: Yeah. First of all, thank you. That's really awesome. And hopefully, you'll see us. We're actually launching Vet the Vote 2024 at the Super Bowl because, crazy as it sounds, the Super Bowl is in Las Vegas, and the Nevada primary is the Tuesday before the Super Bowl.

So we're going to give some veterans who are serving as poll workers-- actually, a veteran from Nevada who has for 20 years trained fellow poll workers-- we're surprising this guy-- hope he's not on the call. But we're surprising this guy with Super Bowl tickets in a couple of weeks.

But I think no matter what sort of things that you're interested or passionate about, there are military family and veteran groups connected to them. You can throw military spouses a baby shower if their partner's away. You can donate to schools that have a lot of military kids. There's so many things you can do.

And then, of course, there's veteran programs that work with disabled veterans and veteran programs that get veterans leading physical challenges for people. So I think anything that you're interested in as a person, there is probably a group out there serving the veteran and military family population that's doing that.

The other thing is the more that there is cross-cultural collaboration-- you do it at your company already. But the more that there's communities where you can say, I didn't know there were so many veterans in my own town, I didn't know there were military families because there's a base not that far away in my own town-- and I think that bridging the civil-military divide is as important as giving to people in-- that need help because I think the "othering" of the military and the siloing of us, us as a different community and culture, has also hurt our country. And it's definitely hurt military recruiting.

CORY JOHNSON: And I just add-- in addition to being able to give and donate, I would just add on top of that, don't be afraid to look at donating your time, as well-- some of these organizations, especially as we talk about the civic engagement organizations. If you're out there right now thinking how-- I love Citizen Travelers, I want to give back, I want to be more civically minded, and you're thinking about should I do that or not, I would just say yes, you should. And you can start now.

You don't have to run for school board on your first day. There are so many opportunities to be able to give back to your community-- at school boards, counties, cities, townships, even states. They all have advisory councils where they need input from people that want to donate their time to talk about real issues that can then advise people that have to end up making the decisions. I'm always looking for people to serve on my advisory councils in the school district to help better inform my opinion.

And the other thing I'll say about that is another thing that I see military-connected families, and also probably just a lot of business-minded people who might be listening to this webinar-- one thing that they all have in common is this also need to want to develop themselves, this professional development-- be better at their job, be better in life, be better in their community. There's this need to want to do better and improve yourself.

And I can tell you, sometimes I get asked, why would you run for school board again after you had to lead it during COVID? Are you crazy? And what I say is-- one of my responses is, I do this because in addition to being able to give back, it helps me grow as a person as well. I get a lot of different experiences serving my community that helps me grow.

So for anyone out there who's thinking, do I have the time for this and what do I get out of it, in addition to helping your community, I guarantee you you'll grow as a person and a community member as well.

JANICE BRUNNER: Absolutely. I think that we think so much about that at Citizen Travelers. It's just such a win, the virtuous cycle. You learn so much in these roles. And you bring that back to so many-- you bring that back to your work at Travelers.

I can't thank you enough for being here with us today. And I apologize we didn't have a lot of time to talk about the Vet the Vote initiative and the use of veterans as poll workers. But I hope people on this call will go onto We the Veterans and check out the information and get involved because it's a great thing to be part of.

And thank you very much, Ellen and Cory. I can't thank you enough for being here with us today. And the power of positive patriotism is really amazing.

ELLEN GUSTAFSON: Thank you so much for having me.

CORY JOHNSON: Thank you so much.

JANICE BRUNNER: And with that, I think we'll sign off. And I just want to mention we have two upcoming webinars for the Travelers Institute-- or sorry, three-- January 31, Fit for Success-- Unlocking Health and Performance, February 14, 2024 Economic Outlook with Goldman Sachs' Chief U.S. Economist, and February 28, Guarding Against Insurance Fraud in the Digital Era. Please tune in. And we hope to see you again soon. Thanks so much.

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Text, CITIZEN TRAVELERS AT THE TRAVELERS INSTITUTE, A SERIES ON CIVIC ENGAGEMENT. Upcoming Webinars: Jan. 31 - Fit for Success: Unlocking Health and Performance. Feb. 14 - 2024 Economic Outlook with Goldman Sachs' Chief U.S. Economist. Feb. 28 - Guarding Against Insurance Fraud in the Digital Era. Register: Travelers Institute dot org.

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